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It’s Coming…Probably Sooner Than Later
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Andy, You are an affirmed tech lover. But you miss the point completely.
If you want to be able to turn your driving over to the computers in your car be honest and tell us if you really think you are going to be safer, or if you will use the seat time for other tasks such as using your cell phone.
We don’t have to educate the morons as much as force them to change their bad habits. All the technology is already in place but we do not have legislatures with the balls to employ them. Every car and cell phone can be linked so the car will stop or the cell phone turned off when the car is in motion. Nobody needs to look at the center computer display if it is made so it will only respond to voice commands. Tell it to change radio stations or GPS destination. Let it read cell phone texts to you and let it use voice commands to make and receive texts and phone calls. Without such a device the phone or car is disabled when in motion.
Some cars will alert a driver if he is nodding off. Use that same technology to keep the driver paying attention to driving or reduce the car’s speed. If the drivers know the car would not perform unless the driver was off the phone, with his eyes on the road and he was not nodding off habits would change quickly. I agree with stabilization control and automatic braking, but since a lot of the braking alerts are the assholes that pass and pull in too close install a loud 130 decibel siren inside all cars so it will engage as long as the driver pulls in ahead of someone with insufficient room. I guarantee nobody will cut in too close if they know their ear drums will suffer every time they don’t allow enough room. Why do I need an alert when I did not tailgate, but had some moron steal my stopping distance. Make the other guy suffer.
Cars can be made so a quick breath test will determine if the car will even start. For those who drive under the influence of drugs, or who drive drunk treat them like you would a criminal waving a gun in a school. Jail them and take away their car. What they are doing is no less criminal or life threatening so treat it like the crime it is.
I have zero problem if you want your car to drive you, but I don’t want to have a car that doesn’t allow me to drive getting shoved down my throat. There are actually people that like to drive and who are safe and competent. And if my reaction time as I age is slowed, I plan to compensate by allowing more stopping distance, something the morons now driving want to violate.
And I want to see every driver required to prove his competency in the vehicle he is driving. If you drive a bus like our coaches I want you to have a suitable driver license. It is insane to require someone to have a motorcycle rating but to allow an incompetent driver to be piloting a 50,000 pound bus with a 6000 pound toad running down the road at 70 MPH. But again this goes back to legislatures that do not have the balls to apply logic to situations such as distractions and training. So instead you fall back on thinking if the car drives us instead of the other way around we will be somehow better off. What if I don’t want to have a self driving car?
Jeff and Lindsay
91 Marathon XL -
The problem with all this stuff is it seems the people pushing it have no street creed, no bonafide, all theory.
Bernie, here’s a question: Does Freightliner have street cred?
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Andy, You are an affirmed tech lover. But you miss the point completely.
If you want to be able to turn your driving over to the computers in your car be honest and tell us if you really think you are going to be safer, or if you will use the seat time for other tasks such as using your cell phone.
Jon, I’ve made my stance clear on using technology while behind the wheel. In fact it’s documented at the 3:08 mark in this video:
We don’t have to educate the morons as much as force them to change their bad habits. All the technology is already in place but we do not have legislatures with the balls to employ them. Every car and cell phone can be linked so the car will stop or the cell phone turned off when the car is in motion. Nobody needs to look at the center computer display if it is made so it will only respond to voice commands. Tell it to change radio stations or GPS destination. Let it read cell phone texts to you and let it use voice commands to make and receive texts and phone calls. Without such a device the phone or car is disabled when in motion.
While I won’t use the word “moron” in my posts, you’re correct in that some technology is already in place and at this point and you’re correct, it’s not mandatory. Apple has implemented a Do Not Disturb feature in iPhones that allow the phone to stay silent when it detects it’s in a car that’s in motion. Apple Do Not Disturb Feature
In reference to some of your other points, while Apple Car Play and Android Auto allow for hands free messaging in a vehicle, why are we not seeing the converters incorporating these devices? I’ll add that some of the touch screens in motorhomes have become so cluttered, that having basic voice commands that instruct the audio system to switch to a specific XM station would keep the driver’s eyes on the road instead of fumbling with on screen buttons that don’t have a tactile feel.
Some cars will alert a driver if he is nodding off. Use that same technology to keep the driver paying attention to driving or reduce the car’s speed. If the drivers know the car would not perform unless the driver was off the phone, with his eyes on the road and he was not nodding off habits would change quickly. I agree with stabilization control and automatic braking, but since a lot of the braking alerts are the assholes that pass and pull in too close install a loud 130 decibel siren inside all cars so it will engage as long as the driver pulls in ahead of someone with insufficient room. I guarantee nobody will cut in too close if they know their ear drums will suffer every time they don’t allow enough room. Why do I need an alert when I did not tailgate, but had some moron steal my stopping distance. Make the other guy suffer.
While the guerrilla tactic of adding a 130 decibel siren to the interior of a vehicle simply won’t happen, doesn’t it make more sense that if a vehicle’s system determines a driver is nodding off, has a medical emergency or other related issue, that it can simply pull the car safely off the road and alert authorities? To do that, a level of semi autonomous features is required. Heck, the current Apple Watch can determine if the user suffers a fall and contact EMS with your location along with pertinent medical information. Combine this with enhanced automotive features and possibly, the roads could become safer.
I have zero problem if you want your car to drive you, but I don’t want to have a car that doesn’t allow me to drive getting shoved down my throat. There are actually people that like to drive and who are safe and competent. And if my reaction time as I age is slowed, I plan to compensate by allowing more stopping distance, something the morons now driving want to violate.
I think one of the problems is that as we age, we may not realize that our reaction times have slowed. I’ll ask if you’ve spent any seat time in a Prevost that’s equipped with the Prevost Aware system? I truly appreciate this feature and it’s proven to me that that it’s a viable safety device for drivers of all skill levels.
And I want to see every driver required to prove his competency in the vehicle he is driving. If you drive a bus like our coaches I want you to have a suitable driver license. It is insane to require someone to have a motorcycle rating but to allow an incompetent driver to be piloting a 50,000 pound bus with a 6000 pound toad running down the road at 70 MPH.
We agree.
What if I don’t want to have a self driving car?
It’s no different to those who don’t want a coach that requires DEF. Vote with your wallet and simply don’t buy one.
But remember, these changes come slowly. Personally, I’m scratching my head while more coaches don’t incorporate basic blind spot warning notifications…the same type of systems that have been used in cars for nearly a decade. I think that would be a welcome addition to any bus…commercial or recreational.
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I wasn’t talking about manufacturers, I was talking about you.
I gotta go make smoke, we’ll catch up tonight.
Later
bv
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I find it amusing that self driving trucks are being promoted as the future. In fact it makes zero sense. Right now I believe we all expect the self driving trucks will still have a driver as a back up, just like planes do.
Self driving trucks seem to be promoted because there is a lack of drivers. Are there any trailers on the road anymore that do not have decals saying the company is looking for drivers?
Where it gets really silly is there still seems to be a need for drivers, maybe no competent drivers, but never the less someone who can fog a mirror, and now the trucking companies need to add computer techs to their list of mechanics. So will the decals on the back of trailers be advertising for computer geeks?
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I wasn’t talking about manufacturers, I was talking about you.
I know I’ve only be testing and evaluating consumer technology products for 30+ years…what would I know. I guess it’s okay to shoot the messenger.
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This technology has nothing to do with safety. It has to do with profit on one side of the fence and control on the other side. I am sure we have the capability to develop this technology to operate safely on a large scale. I am much less confident that it will happen that way.
Think of all of the current monitoring systems on our vehicles. I see no proof that the developers of this stuff understand a very simple concept. That is that any monitoring system should be more robust than the system it is monitoring. If it isn’t what good is it? How many vehicles are driving around with a check engine light on because the engine is running fine, for example. When lives are at stake this attitude will have serious consequences. I am sure all of these systems are prototyped with plenty of money spent on components until the system is proved out and its sold to the public as acceptable. Then its time to recoup the investment plus make a profit. All of the components are re engineered and farmed out to the lowest bidder.
On the control front, how long will it be before your vehicle will stop because you’ve used your allotted miles for the month. Are any of us going to be around to see this end game? Maybe not. What about our children and grand children?
I know there are a lot of really bad drivers out there doing things that they should not be doing on the road. Still, I for one would prefer to keep it one soul with skin in the game in control behind every steering wheel.
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You are evaluating technology from your perspective and only the technology. What you appear to leave out of your evaluations is if the technology is needed, if there are alternatives to the technology, how it will impact society, its cost, and absent statistics you are actually claiming it to be safer, for example, when in fact it has the potential to be safer but so far has never been proven in real world weather, road conditions, mixing with construction zones, dangerous drivers, or real world computer glitches and failures.
What does it cost to make a vehicle self driving? What will its life span be? How is it affected by conditions such as those that require judgement like black ice? Can someone with bad intentions hack into the system? How will back up driver’s maintain their skills or will we see trucks without any driver? Are there skilled computer service technicians to insure the systems are safe?
Why aren’t any of these vehicles being tested in the snow belt? Why isn’t technology to prevent distractions being offered? I was run off the road in my bus by a CRST driver who pulled into my lane with 5 feet of his trailer still along side of my bus because the driver had his white smart phone on the center of the steering wheel and he was texting. Install a cell phone jammer instead of a driving system. Install an alert to warn him he shouldn’t change lanes. Install a computer system that monitors his performance and reports errors automatically to his company safety department. Pay safe drivers a lot of money and fire bad drivers.
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Jon, you could soften your idea about the siren. Ram trucks seatbelt warning chime is just as effective. I have a long driveway and drive my Promaster to the road to get the mail and take the garbage down. If i dont buckle up it drives me nuts. I often wonder why i am so annoyed for being protected from myself while others welcome it.
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The Gadget Guru likes gadgets…. Who would have thought that? Many of us call this new technology greater than an alligator. While still others feel they should go away and not come back another day. But I do get it Andy, we don’t stand still nor should we. I just feel we could pause and take it all into consideration. Something as simple as what Jon said about testing in snow?
At our family reunion in my brother, one of them, rented a Jeep. It had a new deal so when you were at a full stop the engine would shut off or use only a couple cylinders or something? It was strange to say the least but it’s what Jeep decided was a good thing. My brother hated it and come to find out it cannot be changed. And if you changed it it would void the warranty. You know as well as I that it’s controlled by the on board computer. They could have easily provided a button, switch or artificial intelligence yikes, to turn the feature off. But no way! Jeep will decide…
Car makers also decide to store all vehicle use information as to where you go, when you go there, what was the posted speed and what speed were you going and on and on and on. They will only use this information for themselves and never sell it to insurance companies, law enforcement. Government etc. Do I hear “and a partridge in a pear tree” playing in the background? Yes I believe I do.
So it’s not just alerting you you’re moving into another lane or you’re falling asleep, it’s taking something away from you and possibly something you’re unaware of and wouldn’t agree with if you did. But no problem, you simply decide not to buy that vehicle. And that’s great until all vehicles are being built the same way. It gets to the point these people you never authorized to have any of this information know more about you than your family.
I know, I know…. Harry is finely gone off the rails and maybe I have. But anyone who thinks you don’t give up something from all this technology isn’t smart enough to be reading this forum! Have the technology and the driverless and electric stuff and it’s all good right?
So we have cars and trucks and buses all electric and ain’t it great. Oh but where are we going to get all of these new power grids to power up all this electric wonderfulness? Yes I know, from the electric fairy! Did I just see a Canadian werewolf?
Harry
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Jeff, I am being hard nosed because while Andy may not like my choice of words calling some drivers morons or assholes, it is because these people exist that we are having stuff jammed down our throats. If you have a new Prevost with an active braking system and I am one of the morons that will cut in front of you with only one car length spacing at 70 MPH you are going to have the bus brakes slammed on and the black box such as On-Star will see that as you being the guilty party. In the meantime the moron continues on his way weaving in and out of traffic and cutting in too close.
I am a firm believer that some people need the equivalent of a 2 X 4 up side the head to get their attention. If that moron knew instead of a little chime to annoy him was instead a 130 decibel siren you can be assured he would modify his habits, which is something Andy says can’t be done so we need self driving cars. Bull, punish the offender and he will modify his habits. You may have the safety feature on your new bus, but the moron is using it to abuse you and you have to suffer. What if you wife is pouring coffee at the sink when that car cuts in too close, but is pulling away at a high rate? As an experienced driver you will not be happy he pulled in too close, but you know his lane is clear and he is not a threat so you do nothing. But your system has to be so sophisticated it can process that information your brain has done so your wife and a pot of hot coffee does not end up hitting you in the back as brakes are applied.
If the system punish bad driving behavior then you as a safe driver with your new Prevost with automatic braking you will be able to enjoy the drive without someone forcing your brakes to apply.
As Andy points out we have the technology to do everything to make cars and driving safer without a need to have a car do the driving for us. I am OK with automatic braking because there are very justifiable instances beyond our control where it is a true safety feature. A deer jumping into your path or a vehicle with a sudden blowout ahead of you or even a person swinging open a car door can pose a problem and computers can recognize and react faster than we can. But I’ve succeeded in avoiding problems for 60 years of driving and know for certain the people who can’t turn off their cell phones, or who stink as drivers, or who just want the car to do the driving are ultimately going to force these features on me.
Right now the cars that shut down at stop signs and traffic lights are forced on us for fuel savings so small they are almost immeasurable and it will not be long before your car is keeping you in lane whether you want it or not or has automatic braking so you are impacted by the moron described above whether you want it or not.
I know of some people (I would like to call them morons, but that would not be nice) who have the adaptive cruise control. They pair up with someone going the same place they are going. The person in front sets the cruise control for the speed they both agree on. The driver with adaptive cruise control sets a speed higher than the guy in the lead, and then allows his cruise control to maintain the space and speed of the vehicle in front. Thats a clever but unintended use of the technology and you can be assured the second driver has no intention of being attentive because his vehicle is being controlled by his systems and the vehicle ahead.
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Jon, my point was actually more about how annoying all the crap on cars is. We can not disable or modify it so we are forced to live with them. I did however appreciate your response. To be clear i agree with most of what you say on here. Lets go with the siren.
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Right now you can turn off the features on most if not all cars, but the engine shutting down is an EPA mandated feature. Having said that there are plug in devices that keep the engine shut down feature from functioning, but the system in the vehicle may see that device and report it to the servicing dealer so your warranty is void.
And right now our cars track our every move, and our driving habits are able to be accessed by anyone with a legal right, such as lawyers, insurance companies and cops. Not only that our stops are recorded and reported and targeted ads based on our destinations are sent to our email and sites we visit.
The dealers have your SSN, your email, your phone number and they are now making money selling your information. I am not an admirer of how technology is intruding on every aspect of our lives.
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Let’s play nice boys, it’s getting a little testy here.
Jon is old school with a flip phone and hates technology, but loves cassette players
Bernie is old school, has a new Marathon that is pretty techie and can’t get the ole gear jamming out of his head, “breaker 19, this here’s the rubber duck, c’mon.”
I’m old school, like the techie stuff, but the old days are gone I’m afraid. Gotta go, need to deposit some dues money with my iPhone using internet banking.
Andy is techie all the way, much like the younger generation coming up.
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I may be one of the younger regular contributors on this forum. We three have iPhones that we use for texting, surfing, email, directions, picture taking, editing, banking, business and sometimes phone calls. We three have iPads, laptops that we use every day. I have a digital soundboard that I can run with my iPad and make ALMOST anyone sound good when they sing.
However, I have a 95 XL, a 97 double stack trailer and a 2006 Scion with a nonworking radio. I am not even sure what most of you are talking about.
Davy
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