[Darrell]

Ben,

I have Magnum 2812’s and Lifeline AGM’s in My Liberty Classic. I would one day like to upgrade to some Li batteries. When the price of them comes down some. I do have a lot of roof real estate with it being a Liberty with cruise airs and OTR. One day soon I can see solar panels and LI being a viable option and upgrade to those that have their forever coach. They even have flexible solar panels now that can fit the contour of the roof. And 100% solar / battery operated split AC systems. Technology is evolving at at a rapid pace. I salute You for being a pioneer in researching and potentially offering new tech upgrades to older coach owners. Keep up the good work and please keep us informed.

Bsafe,

Rocky

[Archived]

Your last paragraph defined the problem.

You are OK having a few central locations for your ipad or Crestron display and once that display is set up to your preferred positions for commands you find that ideal.

Not what I said at all. Read it again, I shouldn’t have to retype it.

If I am trying to make a sandwich at the counter under the microwave and realize I need better light, I want to keep my feet exactly where they are and reach up and press the switch on the wall to light the lights under the microwave or over the sink. I think it is wasteful to have to walk into the living room, and wake up the Crestron before I can push the button, whether it is on the first screen or not. Conversely I think it is equally wasteful to have to step to the electric panel to access that Crestron display that is behind the smoked glass door, wake it up and turn on the needed light.

I had a switch and mine was 2 years older than you. If you want another one moved closer, have it installed.

My point is I am not opposed to technology, but the stupid application of technology when it is used instead of convenience.

A secondary complaint I have is also touched on by your last paragraph. You are screwed if you want to make your system work as you envision it, or if you even want to add or change devices. To get the level of automation you are totally dependent upon someone who is not going to share with you the means by which you can change, repair or diagnose your system. An electro-mechanical device may be old school compared to the touch screens I think you embrace, but it not only does not require any skills to push it such as a switch, but if you are in a remote area and something fails you still have the paddle to get up the creek.

This is true ONLY because Frank wants complete control of a bus that he charges you money to purchase. Maybe you should look at it as a lease because he still “owns” the programming. And if perchance the Crestron fails there are still buttons for everything unless you got shortchanged in the build of your bus.

[Karl]

Sad to say I do not have a single light switch for a lot of my lights. Without going into the coach to check, the following things require the use of a Crestron to operate as individual functions.

Microwave light Mine had a switch and again was 2 years older than yours

Sink light Mine had a switch

Kitchen lights Mine had a switch

Dinette lights Mine had a switch

Galley pocket door (galley side) Mine had a switch

Kitchen counter cabinet extension Mine had a switch

TVs (no remotes) The Crestron IS the remote and the factory one had NO advantages over it.

All 4 Cruise airs I could control all of mine via thermostats mounted to the wall AND the Crestron. More choice is still better to me!

In other words apart from the inconvenience of not having a switch near where I would use those devices or an alternate to the Crestron. If my Crestron pukes I cannot operate any of those items. I think Mark has a coach that has been improved because of feedback from customers like me who find the lack of switches unacceptable.

Your coach was short changed then. I would suggest that you have switches wired. When I wanted a control on the wall to move the dinette out and back in I had them run a wire so that I didn’t have to rely on the Crestron. It can be done.

I just want any technology applied to my coach to make sense. If someone wants to have the ability to unlock their bay doors from anywhere in the world with their cell phone I’m OK with that, but when applying upgrades like that to a system consideration needs to be given to the daily use of the coach as well. BTW, as I bitch about these things keep in mind I consider my coach so well done, so well thought out I cannot imagine one I would rather have. What I consider inconveniences are so insignificant relative to the overall satisfaction they have virtually zero impact on us. My point is they are examples of technology for the sake of technology.

And for some of us, technology for the sake of technology is a GOOD thing! I am pleased as punch not to have to pull the cord on an overhead lightbulb any more and would never want to go back to that. Your switches mentioned above are nothing more than technology that you embrace displacing older technology.

[Per]

Anyone that wants to can come show me where my switches are. I can’t find them.

My coach is so good my bitching is because having the switches that are absent would make it almost perfect, and the inconvenience is minimal as I mentioned. It is still the best coach we have ever owned. My gripe is this application of technology has replaced the pull chain for the light over my head that would be better than walking to the living room to turn on the light.

And yes Tom’s coach with switches where he needs them is a perfect blend of technology and old fashoined simplicity.

[Archived]

Tom,

Yeah I guess your right. Based on what Karl says and his bus is older… perhaps the original owner of Jons coach cut out the hard switches to reduce the build cost or didn’t like the look of all the switches etc. Either way.. bad deal. I would not be Ok with depending on crestron or any remote system from HVAC or pocket door controls.

Jon just curious, Have you asked Liberty what it would cost to add switches for the items you want hard controls of? My guess at this point it’s pretty spendie…

As a Prevost newbie 5 years ago… I have learned a bunch with this bus with help from folks here…. all in all if I were to order a new one tomorrow not a lot of things I would change… but there would be a few. Here is a short list of what I would demand before I dropped 2mil plus on a new coach:

1) shoulder belts for driver and passenger

2) No Ramco Mirrors or no deal!

3) require marathon to figure out a better way to “dry” the house air system. What I have doesn’t work and it’s a pain in the butt

4) would like backups for electric cord reel and sewer hose (manual release wind) or something like that

5) would be on the fence with air pocket doors and other things in the coach… its nice when they work but a total PITA when they don’t I am sure it adds a ton of expense, engineering and control as well

But beyond that I have to say I have been very impressed with all the thought and backup that Marathon has built into to my bus. It’s a 2007 which makes it even more impressive. We have putt about 100k miles on it in 5 years and only left me on the side of the road once on memorial day when we blew a coolant hose. Any other time we have had an issue a call to Leon and he had a back up approach to get me to where it could be addressed. Got to love that. Hoping for lots more miles ahead.

Bill

[Tom]

I love a success story like Bill’s coach ownership, 100K miles in 5 years, ya baby, it gets used…..

[Archived]

Bill,

I just spoke to another owner of my vintage coach and the lack of convenient wall switches is the same thing on his coach. I cannot explain why Karl has them, my vintage coach does not, and why Mark’s later model has them again.

I have not investigated the cost to add switches because as I said the lack of them is not that important to me and I just used that as an example of how the use of technology has the potential to be stupid.

Karl may have misunderstood my listing of no switches to operate my Cruise airs so I will try to make it clear what my concern and objection is.

In my coach the Cruiseairs have three conditions that must be met in order for them to work. The circuit breaker must be on. The SMX panel must also be “on”, but that panel will not be “on” unless the button on the panel is pushed, AND on the mechanical page in the Crestron the selected Cruiseair button must also be activated. As long as the Cruiseair button on the Crestron is activated then the SMX panel can be used to turn the unit on or off, but if the button on the Crestron is not “on” the Cruiseair will not work. I presume the system was set up that way so any or all the Cruiseairs could be turned on or off from any Crestron that has the mechanical page (not all of them have that page), but in my case if I want to change a temperature, or fan speed or switch to heat I have to do that at the SMX panel. My concern is if the Crestron fails I cannot operate my Cruiseairs unless it fails with all the Cruiseair buttons “on”. Lighting and other functions have enough switches for the Crestron failure to not create a major issue.

[Andy]

Thanks Rocky. Bose with the noise cancellation is one that I am considering.

[Doug]

Jon…

Ours is a year older than yours…set up is identical to yours… we do have a switch to put the table in and out .

We do have light switches in toilet and bedroom only and a switch at door for entry but thats it.

We too are Crestron dependent !!

Cheers, Diane

[Alex]

I guess, I am havig a switch orgy because Olivia is eqipped with 12 switch panels located strategically around the bus. In addition to that, we do have 2 iPad where all of the switches are replicated. Switch heaven!

Cheers,

Ronald

[Mike]

Ok, Jon, I am a little more clear on your situation now and I (it pains me to say) agree, that’s stupid. Most of my living area controls are right behind the driver’s seat, but there were other panels in the bedroom and toilet and occasionally scattered about. The Crestron Cruisair setup could use some tweaking, however it may also need another piece of hardware to interface with the SMX controls. Andrew at ETLC can help with that.

Running a few wires would probably cost a few thousand dollars. Running all at once to one location is bound to be cheaper. Really, you are bound to have basically a Crestron-type pad when you are done though. For that matter, you could have an iPod Touch mounted to the wall in six different spots that stayed on the page that only controlled that area. For comparison, the one switch I had installed for the dinette cost just over $600, most of it labor of course.

Another thought about the switches, I didn’t care for the green glow of mine. At night it made driving difficult if I forgot to shut off the 20 or so of them right behind my seat. It was like a searchlight back there. More than once I had to get my sorry butt out of bed to go turn off the switch lights by the bedroom door as there were enough of them to burn my retinas THROUGH my eyelids.

[Archived]

Sure am glad I have a Marathon with switches and 3-way switches throughout the coach and on the iPad also.

[Bob]

Again, for clarity, My home entertainment system uses touch pad controls so it is not an ipad or Crestron or any other type of control I take issue with. it is how such a system applies to the coach and my options.

Right now the use of the system is not as convenient as it could be which defeats the purpose of using the technology. I have a Crestron control right next to the kitchen countertop but to use it to turn on the light beneath the microwave for example I have to open a smoked glass door, wake it up, go to the page for lighting, and find the button for the microwave light. That’s 4 steps when a switch right on the wall would have been so convenient.

My opposition to technology for the sake of technology extends beyond how it impacts convenience or may impact use of the coach if it fails. I have done a lot of reading relating to Li batteries for example and they are very appealing for two reasons. The most important to me is the weight savings. To replace my existing batteries with equivalent Li battery power could save me 400 pounds. If I had the space I could use that savings to add a supplemental fuel tank so my visits to truck stops is even less than I do now.

The second benefit is how Li batteries deliver power. They don’t taper off like our conventional batteries, they maintain full voltage right up until the point where they need to be recharged (or will shut down). That means the Li batteries actually may have a little greater usable capacity.

But when I look at the application in any coach, new or upgraded I try to look at the big picture from my perspective based on how I use my coach. I’m a power pole or generator bus owner. The only time we “dry camp” is overnight in a rest area or parking lot and than all I want is enough battery power to carry us through the night with the refrigerator, some lights water pump, aux compressor and coffee in the morning being our needs for about 12 hours. My 4 8D Lifeline AGM batteries do that without any problem. The rest of the time the engine is running, the generator is running or I am on shore power. When I look at the cost to change to Li I not only have a cost that is not justified except for the weight savings, I have added complexity. For folks that want to dry camp and want a bus that is off the grid most of the time they may be the way to go especially if you add a lot of battery power and a roof full of solar panels and low current draw mini-split A/C units.

[Dan]

karl

you should have got a marathon. Hit one button in sevelral places in the coach and all switch lights go off

[Bernie]

Liberty has the same feature and there are at least six convenient places where hitting one button lights or turns off all lights. Same with the tivoli lights.

But to select specific lights we have to go to the Crestron or use one of the few switchpads and the switchpads are very limited as to which area of lights they control.

Bottom line is simple. There is no perfect coach that is going to make everyone happy.