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Electrical system Upgrades
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Andy, I am one who embraces technology when it makes sense. I wish I had a multiplex electrical system on my coach chassis. As designed it not only increases the reliability of trhe coach, but it makes trouble shooting a complex motor vehicle easier, it is a tremendous benefit in that it provides features I only wish I had like the way it simplifies light and system checks, how it alerts to problems, and the fact it substantially reduces the amount of wires, relays circuit breakers, etc.
I am opposed to stupid applications of technology just because you can do something. Nobody has yet convinced me it is easier to go to a Crestron or ipad display or smart phone, wake it up, go to the correct page and then find the button to light a light, than it is to just press or flick a switch where you have the light. My last coach had the 24V house with the A-B system, but there were no Crestron panels. Every function such as the ones I have today on my Crestron equipped coach had a switch. And the switches were everywhere they needed to be, and I cannot think of anything I can do today I could not do on that coach. I can lock and unlock doors from multiple locations. I can light lights through the whole coach or just where I want them. I could dump and fill, and I could control the A/C units.
In my 8.5 years I owned the previous coach my total repairs to the electrical system involved the replacement of 2 relays associated with the A-B system. And I could change TV’s or other devices without needed reprogramming. There are features that newer coaches have that I would like, such as alerts to my phone if the A/C or inside house temps exceed a certain level so we could be assured our pup is safe when we are not in the coach, but I don’t want the rest of the inconvenience just to get certain features like that one.
BTW, we have just completed a full integration of our entire house audio / visual system so from a single remote, and a single push of a button on the screen we can turn on or off every single device on a system the installer said is more complex than any he previously worked on. One tap of the finger on a screen that turns on automatically any time I pick up the remote. I do not have to go through various pages unless I want to do something out of the ordinary. Imagine that. Would it be so hard to get that simplicity in a coach instead of paging through various screens just to open a door?
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Ben, I agree with your take on Victron but the reason for leaning towards AM Solar is that they probably have the best (non-Prevost) reputation for integrating both systems into an existing coach. They have been around for 26 years and appear to have most of the learning curve in their rear view mirror. I also looked at using Relion batteries that are drop in replacements for my 8D batteries but I liked the monitoring that Victron offers. Relion seems to have a pretty good following in the marine and, I believe, in the small plane marketplace. I talked to Lithionics who had a booth at the marine show which was next to the POG show in Tampa and liked what I heard but they never replied to my email requesting information. I also tried to make contact with Smart Battery and I really liked their construction but they seem to have other issues.
Yes, I would like to know more about your offering so feel free to email me.
My inverters are Magnum MS 2812’s that are about a year old and I have quite a bit of roof realestate compared to most.
Jon, LOL are there two of you? We both think along the same lines but our needs/wants are different. In my last two homes I designed and built music listening rooms which doubled as a home theater but were first and foremost a dedicated listening room optimized for the female voice to be listened from the center front row seat (sweet spot). It sounded good anywhere in the room but that spot was heaven to our ears. Now that we sold our home and will be going full time that is one feature of our home that will be very much missed. I try not to think about how much we lost selling the equipment.
I was sold on cell phones when I was on the road a lot and no longer had to stand in line at the Denny’s to use a public phone to call the office for messages then use the same phone to return calls while others waited for me to finish. Then when I worked out of my home I could check emails on my smart phone without having to go home to check them on my computer. This gave me flexibilty. I became more productive and had more free time since I did not have to head home immediately to check to see if what I had to respond to but instead I could head for a run or a bike ride or whatever without wasting time or feeling guilty. I don’t text or check email while driving but will use hands free in a car but not the bus.
Andy
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Your free time is spent checking your phone just to make sure you don’t miss anything, and I’ll bet you use it when you are at a restaurant with other people, but that is OK. They are glued to their phones also.
I have a tin ear so sound quality was not the issue, but we are not ipad or cell phone folks so we don’t possess the skills needed to swipe fingers across a screen or squeeze or expand them so we can really get into the nitty gritty.
But what we did accomplish is if it is music we want it through the entire house, each room having its own controls so if someone in a room does not want to hear it, they can mute the sound. But now we can play records (33, 45 and 78), cassette tapes, CDs, the radio tuner, or music via Direct TV. Push one button and what is selected comes on. (Obviously we have to select and load our choices such as my prized “Yes we have no bananas” on 78 RPM.)
If we want to see TV we again push a single button to select the source, Direct TV, internet such as Netflix, DVD, or VHS. We can also see all our security cameras on any TV. The sound quality may not be top shelf, but there is no end to the sources we can select. I felt sorry for the guy setting it up because if he heard “one button” once he heard it 100 times, bitched a lot, said he couldn’t do it a lot, but in the end he did it and if my bus was that simple to operate I would be singing a different tune.
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Ben, we sold Liberty 567 a few months ago as we are about to buy a boat to hopefully sail the world while young enough. It was the boat I referenced about solar. When we return to the bus world I will be interested in all of the upgrades you are talking about.
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Jon, it’s not only tough, it’s impossible to justify what you spent on that Ford, regardless of what the GC would cost. You still have a 60+ year old car, even with some upgrades. It is not my thing at all, but I respect that it is yours and makes you happy which is the ONLY justification it needs.
The power upgrades Ben talks about would be right up my alley. I _DO_ like complexity for complexity’s sake.I grew up with computers and you didn’t and I find it interesting. You grew up with mechanical everything and learned how to use it…I didn’t. Let’s just let others do what makes them happy, I say.
Also, as to getting your Crestron to do multiple things with one button push, it is called a “macro” and it is definitely possible. Your problem will be getting Frank to give you access to the programming, but the guy who works with Jeff is entirely capable of setting it up much better than the factory. In fact, one of the things I had him do with mine is put all of the buttons in a logical order (instead of the hodge-podge Liberty did) and in the same rough order as the physical buttons on the walls. To do that I had to have Liberty move many of the buttons from their original location. I set it up so that the door immediately next to the button cluster was always activated by the bottom right button so that I could stop looking at the buttons. The room light was top right. All lights were grouped together in the order that they are encountered in the room. Anyway, when you want to watch a movie one button does blackout on the shades, turns off the lights, fires up the movie source, turns on TV and sound and starts the microwave for popcorn (just kidding about that last part). Any combination you want can be programmed by someone who is willing to listen to you and make corrections, as long as the items in question can be activated by the Crestron system itself, unlike the microwave.
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Your last paragraph defined the problem.
You are OK having a few central locations for your ipad or Crestron display and once that display is set up to your preferred positions for commands you find that ideal.
If I am trying to make a sandwich at the counter under the microwave and realize I need better light, I want to keep my feet exactly where they are and reach up and press the switch on the wall to light the lights under the microwave or over the sink. I think it is wasteful to have to walk into the living room, and wake up the Crestron before I can push the button, whether it is on the first screen or not. Conversely I think it is equally wasteful to have to step to the electric panel to access that Crestron display that is behind the smoked glass door, wake it up and turn on the needed light.
My point is I am not opposed to technology, but the stupid application of technology when it is used instead of convenience.
A secondary complaint I have is also touched on by your last paragraph. You are screwed if you want to make your system work as you envision it, or if you even want to add or change devices. To get the level of automation you are totally dependent upon someone who is not going to share with you the means by which you can change, repair or diagnose your system. An electro-mechanical device may be old school compared to the touch screens I think you embrace, but it not only does not require any skills to push it such as a switch, but if you are in a remote area and something fails you still have the paddle to get up the creek.
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Jon, in response to your first sentence responding to my post, you would lose that bet. I can’t tell you how many times I have heard the tin ear excuse and not once has anyone been in a hurry to leave the room and usually we have to just say sorry last song. By the way, this inlcudes a friend with hearing aids in both ears. Anyway, that is another bet you would not want to make and we can discuss why another time. Enjoy your music.
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Now hold on just a minute, there is no way you would be standing at the counter under the microwave making a sandwich. We all know who has that joyful responsibility.
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Just wanted to point out that we have light switches.
If I’m in the kitchen, I can turn the light on under the vent-a-hood with a push of a button.
The sink lights, living room and dining room lights are on a panel on the wall behind a small door along with the the bedroom air door button that also includes the living room/galley thermostats. No Ipad needed.
The bedroom and both bathrooms have light switches. The rear bath light panel has a set of switches that can also operate both air doors from the ‘throne’ at the panel. :o)
The living room and bedroom have a separate wall switch for the window shades.
Mark
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Jon,
Are all Liberty’s set up the way you describe? I might be missing something but on my Marathon and all that I have seen there is a hard switch for everything major like lights doors etc. Changing the channel or adjusting volume is Crestron only but even the blinds have back up hard switches.
Could be the Engineers that designed it got overwhemled by the smell of the Rose pedals or hypertherma from the OTR and got all @hit ass stupid when they designed it?
Truk can you show him how this stuff is supposed to work?
Bill
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Sad to say I do not have a single light switch for a lot of my lights. Without going into the coach to check, the following things require the use of a Crestron to operate as individual functions.
Microwave light
Sink light
Kitchen lights
Dinette lights
Galley pocket door (galley side)
Kitchen counter cabinet extension
TVs (no remotes)
All 4 Cruise airs
In other words apart from the inconvenience of not having a switch near where I would use those devices or an alternate to the Crestron. If my Crestron pukes I cannot operate any of those items. I think Mark has a coach that has been improved because of feedback from customers like me who find the lack of switches unacceptable.
I just want any technology applied to my coach to make sense. If someone wants to have the ability to unlock their bay doors from anywhere in the world with their cell phone I’m OK with that, but when applying upgrades like that to a system consideration needs to be given to the daily use of the coach as well. BTW, as I bitch about these things keep in mind I consider my coach so well done, so well thought out I cannot imagine one I would rather have. What I consider inconveniences are so insignificant relative to the overall satisfaction they have virtually zero impact on us. My point is they are examples of technology for the sake of technology.
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Andy,
I am sure sound quality is important for you. It is not for me. We got rid of a high quality sound bar that was part of our system because my wife and I found it was easier for us to hear and make out the dialog using the speakers from the TV.
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You’re right Jon, sound quality was important but I will never be able to get the same sound quality out of a coach because the room acoustics are just not there. The best I can hope for are some good headphones while full timing so that is something that I will need to explore.
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Bill,
He won’t even step foot in a Marathon, if he did, he would be jealous of my galley switch.
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Hey Andy,
Bose has some pretty good quality lightweight headphones.Bsafe,
Rocky
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