[Archived]

Obviously, Dick, they tried to close their awning!!

Knock on whatever, I’ve had lots of small issues with mine, but I’ve always been able to close it…sometimes, it used to take 2 tries until I bypassed batteries.

[Archived]

I am amazed after following this site for more than two years how much substandard crap is installed on Prevost coaches. And no one wants to stand up and take care of the problems. I guess some companies have a differant business model than mine……………….

[Corey]

Yes Buddy… come to Nacogdoches and we’ll get together !!

Larry & Diane

[June]

I’ve arrived at the same conclusion that Steve has. And to think many of could be, should be, will be, and already are repeat customers.

[Charles]

I’m probably one of the few that think this…so I’m prepared to take some heat for this post. But I’m quite impressed with the majority of the components installed on a Prevost. Sure there are, and always will be, room for improvement. But the same can be said for all of the leaders in any industry. Considering the robustness, handling, ride quality & overall solid feel of a Prevost, I’d say Prevost is still the benchmark in coach manufacturing. If one of the main complaints, on this forum, is a less than ideal side mirror motor, I’d say that’s not too bad. My coach is 15 years old. She still glides down the road, (my) mirrors don’t shake, and has pretty much called for only standard maintenance to be performed. That’s way more than I can say for virtually any other manufacturer out there. I returned today from a 4 month trip in the coach around the country. And there was nothing I had to do to the coach that couldn’t be addressed with a small tool kit. That, to me, speaks to the quality of the items and manufacturing process of a Prevost.

Ok. I’m ready for the heat. Fire away!

[Archived]

To put my complaints in context they are offered to point out we do have issues, but more importantly when we find a lot of us have the same issues and there is no response we are not only upset over the minor issues, but the lack of an appropriate response from the manufacturer(s).

I try to put things in perspective. An annoying squeak or rattle on my dump truck doesn’t move the needle when it comes to irritating me, but if I heard the same squeak or rattle on my Mercedes I would be getting it fixed.

So to pick two of the most discussed issues we have had ongoing problems with the Ramco mirrors for a long time and despite a string of complaints about the quality of the plating and the shaking of the mirror glass, both known to Prevost, nothing has changed. But worse than that there are two manufacturers of charge air coolers. One makes a quality product with a million mile guarantee. The other is willing to supply the paper trail that Volvo apparently requires from its suppliers. That CAC fails prematurely. So guess which one Prevost stocks as a replacement part? The high quality CAC. Guess which one is installed on new coaches? The one with the paperwork.

The problem is communications. What we as customers say has little value and does not reach the ears of the people at the management level that can do away with these annoyances.

I was an owner when the company was owned by Andre Normand, Bill Campbell and Tom Harbison. Our coaches back then had issues, one was recurring problems with a particular relay. Since Bill and Tom both had conversions, and both attended the Prevost Proud rallies they not only had one on one conversations with us, they also were aware of our wants and needs and made sure those were addressed. Until the relay problems were corrected they used to give away spares like candy at Halloween.

We do have the best coaches in the world. It must be true if we can complain about the small stuff and nobody even thinks of a Van Hool or MCI or Setra conversion. But our Prevost can be better and probably for very little if any money.

[Archived]

Billie has pretty much put it in the proper perspective. We just returned from a 6 mo. 12 K trip (4mo. traveling with the 3 B’s) with no issues that could not be addressed with simple hand tools and a call to the right person. Thank you Ben, Rick and Jeff. I watched Billie get his stupid air arm awning working properly after everyone told him the only fix was to replace the arms. Even with the niggling problems that have often been complained about here, we are riding down the road mile after mile in the best possible units. Being that Prevost is most likely nothing more than a pimple on Volvo’s ass, Corporate will probably never address issues like the mirrors, CAC’s or the blue and red turbo hoses. Being the grumpy old fart that I am, I’ll keep my compaints in the future to a minimum by never wanting a Volvo motor or even an EGR S60. Don’t need or want adaptive cruise control, auto braking or lane warning. Even though it’s an exteme luxury vehicle, drivers don’t benefit by adding stuff to possibly make them more complacent. As much as anyone hates to have a problem, I just think of what the second best vehicle in this category might be and I’m all happy again. Geo.

[Corey]

Billy,

Hug
your mirrors daily and thank them for not shaking or having the
chrome fall off, you are one of the lucky ones. How’s your chrome,
especially around the bolt holes?

If
no one complains on forums like this, the problem just get’s ignored
or people accept the fact their million dollar Prevost is suppose to
have shaky mirrors and bad chrome because the mirror manufacturer
chose to send their mirrors to Mexico for chrome because it’s cheap.
There’s a pattern here, I have had 6 Prevosts ranging from 94 to
02 and everyone had shaky, corroding mirrors. Prior to my Prevost
days, I had 3 different plastic CC’s and don’t recall any mirror
issues. This mirror problem has been going on for many years, yet
nothing gets done to correct the problem. Granted, Ramco did try the
new motor, but that didn’t work either.

Our
buses are the best there is, no comparison, but components used in
manufacturing that don’t hold up as intended should be addressed and
complained about, even if no one is listening.

Like
you, I just completed a 6000 mile trip and had no issues other than a
few small items and was very happy going down the road with my
mirrors averaging everything out.:)

[Richard]

Have only had two Prevo’s, an XLV and now an H. The chrome has held up on both and I consider the shaking minor. It’s there, but doesn’t really bother me much. I do agree though that given the overall quality of a Prevo and at that price point one would expect that they be rock solid. I really feel for those with crappy chrome, guess we’ve been lucky in that department so far. Geo.

[Corey]

Speaking of mirror shake, the worst time I have with them is when I am backing up at an idle.

I have to tip in the throttle just a hair to clear them up. Torsional vibration, Normal? Worn engine or trans mounts ?

[Dick]

Morning BBB,

I don’t have any “Heat” for ya today because the things your saying is correct. My old bus runs like a top, and floats like a skateboard on air. I love it!! What I was saying is… These are 500,0000 shells before the bling is added. My thinking is, with.a 2,000,0000 coach there should not be “one” substandard part…

I also understand that shit happens and there are failures but why keep installing them? Why would Prevost not go back to their suppliers and raise hell ? Why would they not hold them to a high standard?

That seems to be the issue us Prevost owners are complaining about.

With that said, I do own something that has never broken down, or ever failed me. I have beat it half to death and it is as good as it was decades ago. And if we want something maintainance free it is the ticket. It is my 313 Lb Peter Wright Anvil….

Steve

[Peter]

I agree with all of you regarding the quality of the Prevost chassis and many of these conversion additions to the chassis.

But its these nagging little things that would be SO easy for Prevost and converters (often the vendors for the converters) to IMPROVE upon.

Prevost and the converters have gone 11/10ths on just about 98 or 98% of the chassis and the conversion, and then they stumble on the last 1 or 2%.

Stumbling on the last 1 or 2% on the original version or the original build would not surprise me (or upset me). But what does surprise me (and upsets me a little bit) is when I see a world class product (like a Prevost, especially a Liberty conversion) continues to have these nagging little issues with a very small number of components or aspects of the builds that just don’t get changed or corrected.

Isn’t the definition of stupidity doing the same thing over and over again? Is the chassis builder therefore “stupid” for delivering chassis to its customer with inferior CACs, the wrong colored hoses on the turbos, and expensive mirrors that they know have an extremely high likelihood of shaking and having the chrome peel off?

It’s a little amazing we don’t hear more from Prevost, the converters, and component suppliers on the PC Forum. We do hear from the repair and maintenance facilities and service providers regularly, but why not Prevost and the others. (I think we did hear from Ramco for a while and then they went dark; but not off the grid, I talked to them this week.)

I participate in the Garage Journal Forum. There are a handful of vendors and manufacturers who monitor the GJF and quickly comment when someone says something about their products. I stress handful. Don’t expect to see Craftsman trying to defend its tools when the guys are trashing the “Made in China” ones that used to be Made in the USA. One of the best though is Lista Cabinets. When someone says something about Lista cabinets or has a question, Linda@Lista is right there with an answer. A bunch of the other good ones are the guys that sell garage floor coatings via the Internet/mail order. Even general questions about floor coatings are quickly answered (obviously trying to help facilitate a sale in some cases).

Focus groups are one of the tools that W. Edwards Deming (a very vocal proponet of Total Quality Management) advocates to improve products, processes, and services. The PC Forum is a PERFECT focus group for Prevost, the converters, and component suppliers to watch, listen, and respond … respond with comments and respond with changes.

I suspect that the repair and maintenance facilities, the transmixer shop, now the engine guy, and other advertisers on the PC site (like the guy who sells batteries and tire pressure systems) read the postings religiously and use the information gleened from the Forum to adjust various aspects of their businesses. We know they are reading the Forum because they post responses.

But where are Prevost, the converters, and the component suppliers?

Next …

[Andy]

Let me put a point on what Dick said.

The Ramco mirrors could be great, but either Ramco, or Prevost, or both are just not interested im making a sub-standard product at the quality level expected of a Prevost. The plating problem can be cured with one simple step in the plating process and that is a copper first layer. Do that the the plating issues go away. Maybe it costs $100 more. I don’t know because I am just guessing based on the fact an old mirrot can be stripped and replated at a cost of $800 for the set of parts. $100 doesn’t even cover a day’s worth of fuel so how hard is that to justify.

The vibrating mirror is a little more complex to solve, but if someone was smart enough to figure out how to glue the skins on a bus, surely someone could figure out how to stop the mirror from shaking. (I cannot believe I just said that. That thought just sorta fell out of my head.)

And finally someone in the management pyramid that makes up Prevost the company must have the balls to say to top managment how utterly stupid and irresponsible it is to use a substandard CAC when a far better one is available AND IS CHEAPER. Sometimes people have to step back and try to look at things from the customer’s perspective. But that problem is compounded by an engineering error in which the expensive high temp flexible couplings associated with the air intake system are used on the cold side, while the cheaper cold temp couplings are used on the hot side. Prevost knows about this and to my knowledge nothing has been done. And to rub salt in the wound the Prevost service people say “they must be OK because we have never had any fail here.” Duh…….They fail on the road and with a failed coupling the bus cannot generate enough power to even move, much less make it to the nearest Prevost service center.

Really simple, relatively cheap solutions to nagging problems and nobody is responding. Must be the internal politics occupy a lot of corporate time.

[Dick]

I know this thread has morphed a little away from the original Zip Dee one (whom by the way looks like they should stick to making deck chairs rather than awnings) into one regarding sub-standard Prevost components, but here’s my 2 cents FWIW.

Both Prevost’s and the convertors customers are buying new products and the items being generally discussed here are probably OK for a couple of years or so, i.e. until after any warranty runs out. Are any of them particularly worried about what happens a couple or three owners down the line? Probably not.

With respect to the conversations being had on this forum, the majority of owners, with the exception of Mark and maybe one or two others, have buses that are a few years old. If there were a forum for not-so-old seated buses and the owners of said bus companies were complaining that they might have to change their fleets to A N Other brand next time, you can bet Prevost would have fixed the issues by now.

I just dont think think a bunch of guys (and prospects) with ‘aged’ units are going to move the needle. But as others have said, these are minor annoyances that can be lived with or fixed by the current owner whilst they enjoy the greater picture.

It shouldn’t be that way, but it is like it or not. However, owners should still keep complaining about niggles on a regular basis just in case. Some day, somebody, somewhere just might take notice!

[Dan]

Just remember you Liberty guys, they used the stupid awnings longer than anybody else plus they keep putting in the same ******up waste tank. Geo.