[Larry & Diane]

Hi David…

That’s awesome, I am happy to know where the bus is…the twin couches in front were my main reason for our interest in coach… you will really enjoy it.

Are you coming to the Tampa Rally?

Again congratulations… you have really stepped up to the plate with a Prevost, we too have owned Bluebirds and they are good coaches… but this is a BUS !! Enjoy !

Cheers,

Diane

[Archived]

Congratulations Dave on your ’04 Vantare. Hope to get mine one day soon:)

OK, as a trucker driver if I want to buy a truck I can spec a lot of things beyond the interior like transmission, gear ratios, tires etc. On my current semi I drive a Pete 387 with an ISX Cummins . It is mated to an Eaton Fuller ten speed auto shift transmission. It is a manual ten speed with no torque converters or hydraulic system. Basically air hoses and road speed and weight sensors determine gear shifting unless I am in manual mode.

Empty my truck and trailer is about 33,500lbs. 20,000lbs cargo and I will weigh 53,500 like a loaded prevost. At this weight I can run up a six percent like Lookout pass around 55-58mph up hill. Do the converters allow non-Allison transmissions like Eaton Fuller auto shift 10,13,15, or 18 speeds for better performance?

Also can I change tires from say Michelin to Good year or vice versa? Basically from a mechanical standpoint I would like it to be repairable at prevost, Volo, freightliner, truck stops etc. Having trucking based power train allows that. By giving me more locations to choose in a breakdown. What about the engine? Could I get a Detroit Diesel DD15 at 550 or 600hp? Higher power to weight means better fuel economy so I am curious.

If I could get a Vantare with a 13 speed auto and a 600 horse DD15 I would like to.

Also, is there a wiring, service life, and ease of repairs difference between Marathons Multiplex wiring and Liberty coaches wiring methods?

Thanks for the replies they have been helpful and entertaining :).

[Archived]

The electrical systems may well be the area where converters differ the most. Some may not know this or even care. Many owners just want things to work and when they don’t they return to the converter. Somewhat like buying a new car and depending on the dealer for repairs.

Some converters use pretty straight forward relay based systems, or off-the-shelf automation systems. Others modify off-the-shelf systems and yet others have complex proprietary systems.

As far as I can tell, as stated by owners, Marathon and Liberty are the two converters that protect their wiring diagrams the most. It can even be difficult finding a fuse discription placard, as I discovered helping someone find which fuse on many was controlling the entertainment system. A similar level protection has been reported by owners of both Liberty and Marathon with respect to source code for their programming of the Crestron systems. I’m not suggesting this is good or bad, just that these owners are more reliant on their converters.

The good news is that Marathon and Liberty are still in business and are reported to be prompt in answering simple electrical questions from their owners.

It appears as though Millineum is trying to lead the pack on complex electrical automation systems. I haven’t heard what level of information they provide their customers or whether support is available from their suppliers or solely from Millineum.

Parliament seems to have taken the road less travelled in the coaches of today. They rely on unmodified off-the-shelf automation systems and have a limited amount of gee-wiz automation. I believe they make their electrical drawings available to their customers. For me, and to each their own, I like Parliament’s approach.

[Archived]

Yeah I kind of figured they would differ in wiring. However it appears Liberty and Marathon have a bit of job security built in for their electrician crews by keeping it hard to get.

Millennium appears to be Macro built where one touch does task like opening slide doors when kids lock you out. Not a battle of pecking order with Crestron remote as to who is boss to open the door, or put master switch by drivers seat etc.

So, who can answer power train questions I posted? 🙂

[Archived]

Liberty does offer all the information an owner would need to do basic electrical trouble shooting. On all of my coaches the Liberty owners manual listed the circuit numbers but even without a shred of information, every wire to every device has a number. From that device the wire is a continuous run to the fuse blocks in the electrical bay and the same number is on the terminal block(s).

I believe Liberty now uses a multiplex system for their house wiring and although I have not seen an owner’s manual for a multiplex coach my guess is there would be enough information to identify and chase the system for trouble shooting or how to access the information on a message center or laptop like the Prevost chassis provides.

For the purchaser of a new coach there are going to be limits to what is offered. The Prevost web site offers information on the drivetrain avaiable on new shells. I don’t believe any converters are going to make changes to their operating systems because of the huge committment they have in the form of design work. They spend a lot of time and money to design their systems, prove them, and then support them so they are not apt to create conversions with pure custom systems.

I think the reason converters protect their proprietary systems is because they have been copied. Mike Guth who started Vantare bragged in FMCA magazine in 1991 or 1992 how he bought a Liberty, lived in if for a year while reverse engineering it to create the new Vantare. Obviously the Vantare evolved into what it is today, but it started out as a collection of stolen ideas. That was followed by Vogue which also started doing Prevost conversions, copying ideas from converters and going to far as to copy the Liberty logo, replacing the word “liberty” with the word “vogue”. I can completely understand why converters will make it very hard for new or existing converters to steal the product of their engineering. The downside is owners have to go back to the converter for help with proprietary systems

[Dave]

Forget about any engines other than Detroit S60 or a Volvo D13..only in used will you find a S60. All new Prevost units come with Volvo..that is it. Forget many gear ratios too…there may be a couple of choices, but nothing like trucks. Also, you will get an Allison, or possibly an ishift in a new unit I would never want a Fuller or Meritor auto shift. Not ever going to be as smooth..no automated manual will ever be.

As to tires, I would only use Michelin. Why get something less? Nobody makes a better tire.

Truck dealers will change your oil and will work on S60 Detroits, and maybe you can find a Volvo dealer to work on the D13. Other stuff not so much. I wouldn’t want them even getting inside my bus, much less try to work on anything converter specific.

[Peter]

Repeat after me:

For chassis service see Prevost

For engine service see the manufacturer of the engine

For transmission service see the manufacturer of the transmission

For conversion service see the converter.

Repeat as often as required to understand the concept.

[Archived]

RE: If your doors don’t open all your have to do is cut off the 12 Volt power…

We have a release toggle switch in our closet just for the pocket door… hit that toggle and the air door opens instantly along with a big burst of released air… its sounds like a cannon going off…I thought the door was going to go out the side of the bus !!! Many may have that feature and not know it I have 3 switches hiding in the back of one closet…. one for the door and two others are for dimming the rope lights forward and aft.

Cheers, Diane

[Steven]

Ha ha got it Jon, like shampoo rinse lather repeat lol. That’s why I ask here instead of converters…so far 🙂 Anyway, I know about where to go for servicing, just don’t want to go to many different locations for one repair like say bad shifting. go here replace fuel filter with water contamination with new one, drive across town or state to service transmission if problem presist etc.

However a valid point was raised about mechanics wandering inside coach to work near or on proprietary wiring, theft of contents comes to mind. So if anything, trucking with its irregularities in sleep, trip planning, schedules make preventative maintenance more difficult. However owning a luxury coach allows better planning of preventative maintenance For one stop shopping. Instead of waiting for a chance to get one repair I Seattle, another in Denver and last in Salinas Kansas before arriving in Topeka, when you guys can get it all done in Seattle before heading out.

Trying to remind myself, “dddiifffeerrffenttt llliiiffeeesssstttyyyllleeeee, different lifestyle, DIFFERENT!!! lol. NOT AN18. WHEELER. Fix it differently 😉

[Archived]

Of course that’s what I get for thinking like a trucker for last 16 years right? However I do have to have a comparative frame of reference to build a new thought process. Beats starting from scratch. “Wow, I got a shiny new bus. What’s this?” ” That would be the steering wheel sir, now back to the switches you need to know about…”

[Roger]

When we bought our first coach I was in full blown Type A mode. I had no time for anything and I was always trying to make up time.

I knew I had a problem when I fell asleep in the plane on my way to an 8:00 AM meeting. Problem was I was the pilot.

On the first trip in the new-to-us bus I made certain that I turned the switch off. Some people can modulate their efforts. I can’t. I am either in full blown push ahead mode or relaxing. The folks at the factory were instructed not to call. I made it a point to not call the factory. I made up my mind that from the minute I was in the driver’s seat, even if I was just pulling out of the driveway I was on vacation. I have held that philosophy for 24 years. I drive at 62 MPH. I can and have driven faster, but have a hard time justifying it because I am relaxing if I am in the coach. In fact just driving it is relaxation.

We have driven 1200 miles in one stretch, and as little as 50 miles. When I don’t want to drive, I stop driving.

We have traveled with other owners and I don’t know how they ever relax. I can see them in the mirror on the cell phone constantly. Even when they are in the bus or at a rally, they haven’t left work behind them. Too bad. I paid my dues. I worked too many hours, I kissed too many customer asses, I had to act like Dear Abby to a factory full of people. But in the bus, I am almost unreachable. I’m on vacation and I am enjoying the ride.

As to maintenance and mechanics. There is almost nothing a mechanic working on the chassis needs inside the coach. There is no reason for anyone to be inside, tracking in grease or getting fingerprints on anything. But if you turn your coach over to anyone for service and then leave you are guaranteed to find the coach was viewed by everyone. There will be a dirty path from front to rear. The exception is Prevost.

Conversely, if you have repairs or service done by the converter your privacy will be respected and your coach will be protected. The technicians are not going to conduct tours and they will leave the coach clean. Still not a good idea to turn the coach over to them and leave.