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Using New Fuel Card
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This is so simple…
Bubba signs up with TSD, gets his card and purchases 3000 of fuel at Loves. Problem is, Bubba only has 100 in his checking account, so TSD is on the hook for the 3000 and damn sure pays Loves. Bubba goes to Mexico on vacation.
The SS number will help with whatever legal method they use to recover.
Harry – Don’t join, no problem, it’s their business, move on.
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Is the TSD card a credit card???????????
Harry what else would you call a card that allows you to make a purchase without lifting a penny of real cash out of your pocket?
At the very instant you hang up the pump after refueling you have a tankful of fuel and you haven’t paid for it. Someone else is on the hook for your purchase. How is that any different than a Visa card?
But I’m sure you gave Visa your SSN so why not TSD?
Or just don’t use the program. Think of the fuel savings you could have enjoyed as a cost of protecting your SSN.
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Harry,
I understand your concern , but it sounds like over conservatism. Your SSN is already accessible on-line. Given @ 2 hours my computer geek friend can whip out your or anyone elses SSN and watermark it on your home computer screen in bold numbers. Seen it done. The only recourse we have for misuse is to monitor all transactions and react to misuse ASAP.
PS, for God`s sake don`t use Lifelock or like companies where you turn over all financial info to one enterprise who can rape you financially !! They only alert you after the fact. Just my two cents worth.
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Hi Steve, much of what you say is true and I’ll admit I may be hyper sensitive to it. One of my kids had their identity stolen some years ago and it was a nightmare costing tens of thousands of dollars to get him back on track. And the money was the easy part, the emotional toll on him and family is something I don’t even want to think about! I have no idea what people do who don’t have a couple bucks to do something about it? Even now, years later, it still raises its ugly head now and again.
I’ve obviously offended some with my posts and although that was not my intent… There’s nothing wrong with a little caution!!!
Harry
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Just got my card in the mail today.
Perfect timing for our trip to Indiana with Papa next week.
Not worried at all, because I used Harry’s Social that I got from Steve’s friend.
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Hey John… Bite me!
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I got my EFS card from TSD. I changed my password. Very easy. I downloaded the EFS app onto my iPhone. Very, very easy to do. I looked at the map and I have diesel just down the road at the Love’s south of Sheboygan for $2.395 which is an EXTREMELY good price in the general area. I’ll be filling up on Thursday on my way to Road America. Anyone else going to Road America this weekend?
Over the last five years of owning the coach and following diesel prices very closely, I’d come to suspect that high volume users of diesel probably don’t pay anything close to the price posted on the tall signs along the Interstate. This program reinforces that.
Harry: I don’t think you have offended many of us, but I can’t speak for everyone on the Forum. I think some of us are frustrated with some of your posts when we try to help you and you seem to ignore what we’ve just said, especially when you have limited knowledge on the subject.
I have to disagree with Jon. The card issued by EFS on behalf of TSD is NOT a credit card (or a debit card). It’s a payment card. While the distinction might be subtle to those in the non-banking and money transfer world, trust me, there is a HUGE difference. While you may think of it as a credit card, it is not (technically or legally).
This card is not tied to a checking or savings account (like a debit card would be) nor is tied to a loan or line of credit (like a home equity line of credit) or a credit facility (like a credit card is).
The card simply tells TSD that Dick Karth bought $XXX.XX of merchandise (in this case diesel) from a certain participating vendor (like Love’s). TSD then should expect Love’s to extract payment from TSD (probably through an ACH transaction or possibly the drawdown of a line of credit) and TSD needs to get $XXX.XX from Dick by sending a debit ACH transaction through the banking system to Dick’s checking account.
TSD is extending credit to us. We don’t have the money on deposit with TSD prior to purchasing the fuel. If we purchase fuel with the EFS card and our account has no money in it when the ACH hits the account or if we’ve closed the account since the last time we used the EFS card, TSD is still responsible for paying the fuel vendor for the diesel we bought and is out those funds until they squeeze the money out of us if they can find us. If you see someone from the Forum at a campground or rally and it seems like they don’t want to make eye contact … you probably have a pretty good idea of what happened!
ACH stands for Automated Clearing House. Billions and billions of dollars flow through the ACH system every day. Money flow in both directions using the ACH system. If you receive direct deposit of a “payroll check”, Social Security or pension benefit, structured (or even one-time) retirement program distribution, etc. that is an “ACH credit“. The transaction is initiated by the entity sending you the money. If you use an automated system to make a loan payment or pay your utility bill or pay your cell phone or cable TV bill, or pay your PC dues (or for your fuel via either Profit Tools or TDS) … that is an “ACH debit“. The transaction is initiated by the entity you’re sending money too. Only a bank can process ACH transactions. The bank does not allow just anyone to initiate ACH transactions, you must go through a bank approval process to do it. ACH transaction are typically processed overnight and not on weekends, National holidays, or bank holidays (even if your bank is open).
Why ACH and not a credit card or debit card transaction? Great question (I can’t quite see who asked it)! Cost, plain and simple. A credit or debit card transaction costs a much as 2.85% of transaction in “interchange fees” and there is typically a lag of a few days to get the money. HUGE volume credit/debit retailers might get the fees down to 2.25% or 2.30%; emphasis on night. If you’ve ever wondered how your credit card company can pay you rewards … it comes mostly from the “interchange fees” (and a little from the interest many credit card holders pay). With almost every business accepting credit and debit cards today, you can presume that prices have been increased about 3% to cover the cost of the cards. (I could go into the shifting of credit risk in the transaction by the business not having to worry about accepting checks and having limited liability on card transactions, float, but let’s save that for a rally or in the evening at ETLC. You bring the Canadian whiskey, I can talk all night.)
Why not a bank wire? They typically cost between $15 and $30 EACH. Using credit/debit cards or bank wires eats up the fuel cost savings in transaction fees.
An ACH transaction fee typically ranges from $0.15 to $0.95 per transaction depending on the business model and the perceived risk of each individual transaction. So as you can see the difference in cost is HUGE.
Why did TSD want our Social Security numbers? I haven’t talked to them. Maybe when their activity slows down signing up new accounts someone from TSD might explain on the Forum.
Using my background in banking, if I were running a fuel program (say Dick’s Cheap Fuel or DCF for short) I would want my fuel card customer’s Social Security numbers for two reasons.
First, banking regulations (Anti-Money Laundering and Bank Secrecy Act) require banks to “know your customer” (KYC), which requires DCF ‘s bank (or whoever banks these transactions) to know DCF. As part of that, the bank likely requires DCF to “know your customers” … which would be “us”. To comply with the requirements of KYC I would want to know my customers’ business name (if appropriate), an officer or two, subsidiary or division of another company (if appropriate), address (street address in addition to PO box), phone number, and type of business or employment. I would probably also get the SS# or the TIN# of the customer as part of KYC.
Second, because of the structure of the transaction, DCF is extending credit to the EFS card holder from the time the fuel is purchased until such time DCF receives payment for the transaction through the ACH system. That might be one or two days … or over a three day weekend it could be four or five days (especially if you buy your fuel late in the evening). DCF is also at risk if there isn’t sufficient money in the checking or savings account to cover the fuel purchase or the account is closed at the time of the ACH debit. Having a customer’s SS# or TIN# makes it easier for DCF to run an in-file credit report and ascertain whether a prospective customer pays their bills on a timely manner or not. In the event of default on the part of the fuel card customer, having a SS# makes it easier to skip trace the customer for payment. Since the fuel card customer is entering into a credit transaction with DCF, DCF can obtain a credit report on the customer without explicit authorization.
Those are my thoughts, comments, and observations on the TSD program, how I’m pretty sure it works, and controversy over the Social Security number.
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“TSD is extending credit to us.”
Yup, because we have the card TSD is extending credit to us so call the card whatever you want, to us peons who are not versant in banking industry lingo it is a credit card.
And to use that credit card they take 10% of the savings, so like a credit card there is a cost for its use.
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck…………….
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Very good explanation Dick from a banking perspective..
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Dick
Likewise, based on my banking career I agree with your observations and should anyone default, they will need your ss# or tin# to assure they are pursuing the correct person or entity. Let’s hope the program works as well as in the beginning and we see these types of savings over the long term!
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All I know is I used the card at Loves for the first time yesterday. Swipe, enter PIN, pump gas and drive away. It was pretty damn awesome. It looks like I will save about $50 as well so it gets even more awesomer!
The pump did have a question asking if I would like a $200 cash advance but I am not sure why that’s there as I specifically said I did not want to have the option on the card.
After they screwed up sending everyone Billy’s information, they put a copy of my information in an envelope and mailed it back to me along with the card. Had that gotten lost in the mail, everyone would have had all of my information as well…..and a free fuel card!
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Used my card for the first time yesterday. Worked without an issue. Only concern I had was the pump did not ask for a password. Is that normal or do I need to contact the card company? Otherwise a 49.3 cent discount off of the cash price and the transaction showed up in the app quickly showing the total savings.
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I used the card a 2nd time today. Great experience but it DID NOT ask for a PIN. I am sure that yesterday it asked for something (not a PIN) but something before I could pump. Today I did not get anything as is mentioned above.
Day 1 I saved $78.27 and Day 2 $48.23 as I only needed a tiny bit less than 100 gallons. I just wanted to get to my destination with a fairly full tank and there was only 1 Loves along the way. I can see that the biggest issue will be planning. There are WAY less Loves out there so planning ahead will be an important issue to ensure you will be able to take advantage of these discounts.
A question to anyone who might know. Does the price on in the app include the 10% discount they take or will I be billed for a few bucks more when they hit my checking account?
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Multiple members have told me no PIN was required at the pump and I have not questioned this with TSD.
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I’m waiting on my card, but when I spoke with Gina last week, I asked about the discounts at Loves. Gina said that the card works at Pilot/Flying J’s and TA’s and other, but said the discounts might not be the same. I’m excited about getting the discounts described by others here on the community.
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