[Archived]

One of my pet peeves is every single seller of a coach is going to represent it as well maintained. In ads or from the sellers own lips you will note phrases such as “maintained by Prevost”, “maintained by converter”, or “needs nothing”.

As a buyer, the minute you hear or see those phrases say “prove it”. Show me the log books. Show me the receipts. Prove the needed maintenance was done.

If proof is not provided the maintenance was not done.

[Archived]

airbags like tires have a “born date”. So, during a PDI you can check the exact age out you airbags. Our coach we have now, up until we bought it, had never been serviced at Prevost. So, With respect to Prevost service history from Prevost, there was none

[Larry & Diane]

Having bought a 1999 Prevost in April/May of 2014, I concur with what Jon says.

We bought what was essentially a one owner coach with about 71,000 miles (1,600 miles in the last three years). Original negotiations were with a real estate broker friend of the first owner, while the RE guy is a nice guy, he knows nothings of Prevost other than “they are the best” and “they are really nice”. I did have one conversation with the owner who admitted he couldn’t provide me with any maintenance records. The bus had been owned by his business in Michigan, he had sold the business, and the bus was now located in Tennessee. He didn’t have access to those records anymore. Jeff Rowe clued me in on something regarding coaches owned by a business: Any records more than seven years old get tossed.

Before we could get down to Tennessee to see the coach it was sold to another friend of the RE guy and an aquaintance of the original owner. For a number of reasons that just don’t jive with me, the “second owner” put the coach back on the market in March of 2014. Between November and March I discovered East Tennessee Luxury Coach and Jeff Rowe. When I called him about doing a PPI he recalled seeing the coach at Buddy Gregg’s Knoxville shop. Turned out the coach was stored 18 miles from Jeff’s shop which made the PPI very convenient for Jeff.

Because the coach wasn’t insured (which made NO sense to Jeff or me), the seller wouldn’t let us take it for a test ride. The coach was beautiful. Very well detailed. But it has been stored with the bra on, fortunately no paint damage. The seller (now the second owner) conceded there were no maintanence records, but the original owner (who he knew I had talked to) “spares no money or effort to maintain his toys” and has a wonder guy who takes care of everything for him.

Jeff did find some issues that were not major that needed to be addressed: a Cruise-Air that didn’t cool, leaking drive axle seal, etc. Then we went off to Jeff’s shop to talk. Needed new tires (7 yrs old I think), new batteries (5 yrs), “zero everything out”, and deal with the things we found plus anything else that couldn’t be found until the coach is driven and Jeff has it up on the lifts. $10,000 for tires and batteries plus a $20,000 budget for Jeff to “zero out” and fix deficiencies. Jon Wehrenberg reinforced what Jeff was telling me, said the price was reasonable, but be prepared to spend some money on the coach. Then I met with then seller, gave him what I thought was my best offer, albeit lower than what he wanted. The meeting lasted about three minutes. And we headed back to Wisconsin

While I was bickering back and forth with the RE broker who was helping the seller it came to light that the coach had been taken to Buddy Gregg’s for service as well as big truck dealership (Freightliner I think) where the original owner had all the trucks (and apparently there were quite a few of them) for his business serviced. Buddy Gregg was on its third computer system over the last few years. I got service information from the current and most recently sunsetted systems: oil and filter changes appeared to be done on a timely basis. Any information from the oldest system was not accessible. The service mgr did remember seeing this coach (because it had a unique design on it) in from time to time and couldn’t recall any material issues or things being done. Same thing for the service manager of big truck dealer. Neither had records of bags, brake chambers, etc. being changed.

So after learning this and talking to Jeff a few times, I decided I needed to stand firm at my price. Eventually we worked out a deal very close to my original offer.

When we picked up the coach from Jeff he was within a dinner for four at Denny’s of the $20,000 budget.

Subsequently I’ve spent more money with Jeff to handle a few things (I improperly winterized the coach and allowed the Headhunter water pump to freeze up …. $1,300 plus labor), had Prevost JAX do a three axle alignment which resulted in new tie rods (handles MUCH better, drive axle was crooked, tech said someone had botched a previous alignment), new shocks all around (Koni’s on front) which results in a better ride, replaced a leaking trans output seal so it didn’t leak trans fluid on my new concrete bus pad which resulted in a new universal joint (old one had a touch of play, apparently they don’t tighten up over time), replaced the Vanner battery monitor ($93+shipping) after it melted down, the 17 year old Amana refrigerator quit the day after got home from the Indy 500 ($1200 plus $1550 for install), replaced PAX windshield when refer replaced ($253), Jeff’s guys just replaced the Vanner Equalizer ($600 I think) after I got a BAL light on the dash, and now the coach is at Jeff’s getting the OTR/bus air compressor replaced. On Monday morning after the seminar I wasn’t getting enough cold air out of the OTR and after an hour of methodical troubleshooting Jeff determined the compressor was probably shot. $3,100 plus labor. We still have the TVs to change out.

The two big surprises were the refrigerator and now the Carrier OTR compressor. I’ve seen owners of early to mid 2000’s coaches (3 to 5 years new then ours) lamenting their refrigerator quit and I’ve also seen owners of 20 year old coaches finally replacing the original (sometimes still working). Once it quit I realized how that could have cost us 100’s of dollars in food, a hugely impacted trip, God only knows where we would have been trying to replace it in the field or work out of ice chests until we could get to a knowledgeable shop.

The compressor thought is more puzzling. When we bought the coach it wasn’t holding freon and Jeff replaced a seal (which he was was common) and charged it. During the seminar he checked it again, found a packing nut that needed to be tightened and recharged. Once he took the heads off, he found three of the six cylinders with broken reed valves. A number of the posters in another thread have said those compressors in commercial applications last 20 to 30 years. Obviously ours failed way too early.

So … in the grand scheme of things we bought a 15 year old coach with no maintenance records, spent on it what I expected to spend (hedged that expense up front in the price), had a few surprises, and am still happy with the deal although I get a little frustrated everytime something happens or doesn’t work just right.

In my opinion, if you can get maintanance records wonderful. If you can’t, well you can’t and have deal with their absence appropriately.

Engine and transmission issues appear to be very far and few between based on what I’ve seen on the Forum. That said, if I was buying a coach and a nearby Detriot Diesel/Allison Trans service center had a chassis dyno and the seller would allow it … I would spend the money to run it up to full temps and pressures and have the power train put through its paces. Probably would give me peace of mind more than anything else.

[Tim]

I think the bottom line is to not be afraid of an older coach. There is substantial value in one. However, be aware there could be issues and to compensate for them unless you know from service records the things that can cost serious money have been taken care of.

We have learned recently the air systems on some coaches have been overlooked and I have first hand knowledge that to repair the damage can get very expensive. I think it is safe to say if a coach has had its air dryer changed every two years or so the risk goes down, but what Peter and I learned when we spent time recently discussing accessory air, aux compressors, and moisture protection from that side of the system every system needs to be checked as part of the pre purchase inspection.

[Archived]

Thanks D&C for the comprehensive review of zeroing out your coach over the last 15 months. It helps future buyers like myself, who are looking at 13-15 year-old coach.

I know I’ll be armed with additional valuable information at the Seminar in October to help me locate/purchase my first Prevost.

[tom]

One thing all buyers of older coaches should understand is not every coach is a cadidate for $30,000 in repairs. Not all owners neglect maintenance. But the purchase of an older coach should be approached carefully. Actually if all the needed maintenance is done to a schedule the coaches are fairly cheap to maintain relatively speaking.

[needtocamp]

Oh good, Tom, thanks. You’ve got a pretty good memory compared to me!

I’m working on both KYP2 and Lakeland. Mostly depends on Natalie’s availability. Hopefully I’ll know soon.q

[Archived]

First, if the service records on a coach are so important Prevost is expected to have their IT department rewrite the records so they can be distributed to Tom ,Dick and Harry, then everyone needs to step back and see if perhaps there is somewhere else to be barking. There is. If you are a potential buyer your demands need to be made to the seller.
Come on, Jon. It’s not rewriting the records, it’s writing a script to strip out the personal information that they say is why they won’t release the records. It’s probably $100 of programming and a one-time thing at that.

So, if the seller isn’t the first owner, how should they get the records?

Second, it has to be recognized that Prevost may have no records on a coach that has been well maintained. Prevost has service centers spread around the country, but that does not mean some coach owner in Washington state is going to take the coach to Mira Loma for oil changes, transmission fluid changes, coolant changes, air bag replacement, etc. So as a buyer there is no benefit to asking Prevost for service records. With the exception of skin repairs or maybe multiplex system reprogramming the travel cannot be justified to have Prevost provide the service. But, for the records they DO have, they can and should provide them. So should any shop you use for service. Would you suggest that accidents never happen and records are never lost even under the best of circumstances?

So we come back to the owner / seller to gather the service records and if the coach is brokered or sold by a dealer it might not even be possible because the owner(s) may not even be known. So the choice is to walk away from the coach, or have the best inspection possible under the circumstances. Great, but how can the owner/seeker get those records if no one will release them?

Since I have owned my coach my only service history is in my log books. But if my coach is traded it might get wholesaled by the dealer or converter that takes it as a trade in. That wholesale buyer is not likely to get my log books and may not even know who owned the coach. Those records regardless of detail are going to be gone forever. So even if Prevost were to give the service records to anyone who asked how many coaches would have a complete service history?
But they MIGHT get them. And if Prevost doesn’t have any service records on your coach, they don’t have any service records on your coach. Then the buyer is back to what we started with. A good PDI and doing extra work to rehab it.

In my opinion if the buyers began devaluing coaches whose sellers do not provide a service history then the service records will begin being a part of the coach. If every buyer begins the price negotiations with the understanding that unless records prove otherwise, the coach is going to require new air bags, new brake chambers, new Norgren valves, all fluids changed, all filters, all belts, tires and batteries the purchase price will reflect the need to put $30,000 into the coach immediately after the purchase. If every seller understood the lack of records means the selling price takes a $30,000 hit it will not take long for every coach to have those records available in the back closet.
No, they won’t. My coach is 11 years old. I couldn’t possibly recreate the records before I bought it because, well, Prevost amongst others won’t give them to me and I have no idea who the previous owner is. Do you think that decades of records for thousands of similar coaches will magically show up? Then, when they don’t, do you really want to suggest that values decrease by $30k? Because if you do I’m pretty sure your coach and mine will suffer along with all of the others.
A trivial point is that not all coaches without records would require all of those services as many may be only months to a few years old.

I don’t think a buyer should waste time chasing the service records. It is the sellers burden to prove the service history but until buyers place a value on those records they are not going to be commonly available.
But more of them could be. This discussion started based on the premise that Prevost CAN’T provide the records for privacy reasons. I proffer that they CAN but WON’T for some other, unspoken, reason and that it would be easy for them to do.

[Archived]

close to what it is called from memory. Ran my coach vin and found records up until it was burned. 441,000 miles it had service. A few days before fire. Don’t know who all reports to carfax. FWIW Bob

[Bryan]

What possible personal information could be on these records? We would only be wanting to know what was done. When I bought mine the 3rd owner (only two years) changed out all the windows and had 6 awning windows put in, Everyone of the awning windows leaked like crazy. If I had know Prevost in California had done the work I would have gone back to them to see if they would fix them. It wasn’t until I saw an old 35 foot Prevost with Beaver windows did I know Prevost CA was involved.

On the ford-truck site there was a few guys that had access to Carfax and would run Vin’s for potential buyers. maybe PC or some one on the PC could run Vin’s if they have an account.

[Archived]

Prevost Richmond BC Canada changed a few windows for me and resealed one of the trap windows along with some other stuff. Great job! They are only a 3.5 hour drive from our home in Washington. So a guy in Washington CAN have his Prevost serviced at a Prevost Service Center without going to Cali. Very friendly service. Plus the exchange rate is favorable. And they provided me with the service records they had in their system – without names as I requested – just dates – which is all I wanted.

[Tim]

OK, change WA to ND.

But as an owner Prevost will supply records. Karl wants them to supply service records to anyone, something that is not going to happen.

[John]

Jon is apparently right.

I called Dallas Prevost last week about a coach I was interested in. I left a message with an assistant to talk to the service manager about the coach’s records. To date, no call back.

[Archived]

I’ve not had any problem getting service records by having the previous owner call and authorize.

[Dorel]

And ladies and gentlemen that is the key. As long as the OWNER of the coach requests the records they are available.

To get service histories on my coaches I had to verify ownership by sending a copy of the title in my name.