[Peter]

As explained to me once the autostart is set low so that when the Voltage dips below 50% for a brief period the generator doesn’t start up. Many time you can draw your battery voltage down below 50%, like when you microwave popcorn, but once the microwave stop the voltage climbs backup to say 75%. So if you set your autostart to start at a higher % are you charging the batteries because they are low or just a momentary load draw. I for one don’t want my generator starting every time there is a momentary draw to 50%, but at say 40% standing voltage, AGS crank it up and charge those babies.

[Jim]

I think how we prefer to operate our coaches greatly influences things such as the use of auto-start.

We know from battery manufacturers that deep discharges shorten the number of charge cycles. But we also can do some math and calculate how often we use our coaches such that we are doing an autostart. We typically are either plugged in or driving so battery cycles will never be an issue for us.

Dry camping is rare for us, and if we do dry camp I am not sacrificing luxury so I am running my generator as long and often as possible. And if I need to observe “quiet hours” I will manually start the generator anyway when the resting voltage is at 50%. But that doesn’t mean that is how others should do it.

I would suggest folks take the time to learn the coach, how the batteries last under typical usage and then determine how they want to manage battery charging. The only key to successful charging is to make sure the batteries do get a full charge.

[Archived]

Now the comparisons will really start as I spoke with a Millennium representative today. It’s time to start touring the factories that we have not seen.

Liberty Coach is in Illinois so that might get on the list too.

Since a new coach is a ‘real’ commitment, I want to make sure that we pick the right converter that fits our needs.

MM.

[Archived]

I have been to liberty,Millennium,the old Featherlite and Marathon,they are all different and I think that you cannot make a decision just by looking at the manufacturing plant,the overall enginnering is the most important to me and that is hard to evaluate during the plant visit.

[Archived]

Ok, so what do you suggest? What should I look for?

What is your preference? Since they all start with a Prevost shell, we know that part is good.

MM.

[Archived]

Well almost. Even though they all start with a Prevost shell each converter does order shells to their specs.

I don’t know if you are looking at an X3 or an H3, how many slides, or how you want the coach configured, but in the past converters could select from OTR or driver’s air, jake or retarder, alternator configurations, etc. Like Jack I have been to the Marathon, Millennium, Liberty, Vantare, and Hoffman production facilities and know that the large modern plant that Marathon has compared to the relatively small shop Hoffman has does not reflect the quality of the coaches produced or how the coach systems are designed. Every converter should be judged on the end product.

If I were in your shoes I would consider a factory tour to be little more than something of interest. Nothing more.

What I would be doing is defining how I intend to use the coach. If it will be spending more time at RV resorts than being driven I would spec a coach with a lot of slides and plenty of roof airs, but no OTR. I would make sure it had as much storage space as possible. But if I intended to travel far and wide I would limit the number of slides to two, and demand OTR. My preference would then be Cruiseairs because I would rather have their quiet operation in exchange for the limited bay space they use. But those are my preferences. No matter how you configure your coach it will not be perfect because you will be making a lot of compromises.

Now that I have had the simplest of coaches and a moderately complex coach and now a more complex coach I have a serious problem with the trend of all converters to keep making ever more sophiticated systems. No matter how a coach is used the race to offer coaches that can be totally controlled from your Dick Tracy wristwatch has gotten ridiculous. My quest for a new coach would not only focus on systems suited for how I used the coach, but on reliability and serviceability. When looking at coaches it is important to get past the “gee whiz” aspect of the coach and think long and hard about when it breaks, and it will.

As a manufacturing junky I loved the factory tours, but each converter is judged on their product, and that evaluation has nothing to do with where a coach is built.

[AL]

“My quest for a new coach would not only focus on systems suited for how I used the coach, but on reliability and serviceability. When looking at coaches it is important to get past the “gee whiz” aspect of the coach and think long and hard about when it breaks, and it will.”

Oh, if I could sit down with the engineers and change their focus to “beautifully engineered simplicity” from “gee whiz”, they surely would not like me – or maybe they would???

It has been proven time after time that having money does not parallel having good taste. And without a doubt it does not parallel good engineering sense.

What looks good for a show coach at a rally doesn’t look so cool when broken down beside the road. For example, some of the most beautiful classic cars were a result of functionality driving design. I don’t see that in today’s motor coach design.

Look behind the walls… or under the floor in our case.

[Archived]

While I agree with Jon that the final product is what is important, I do see value in visiting the shop where the coach is made. I am in manufacturing also and we have a clean, neat and well organized facility and high quality personnel. That same thought and care is reflected in our final product. So I think that seeing coaches in production can give you a sense of the care and quality they put into their coach, providing you understand what you are seeing.

Also to take Jon’s comments on technology a bit further. We are thinking about upgrading to a newer coach and with that comes even more high tech systems. Even though I love high tech stuff and understand it well, I really want to consider if that will be a good or bad experience. Many of the systems in these coaches are proprietary to the converter and sophisticated, these are the systems that I hear other owners say are the most problematic. So for me I do not want to spend all of my vacations going to Oregon, Florida or Illinois just to keep my coach working like it should. I am very hands on when it comes to fixing problems with my coach but the manufacturer will not give me or other shops the information necessary to work on these systems. Just because you can do everything but drive the coach from your smart phone, does having that or similar capability outweigh the potential difficulties in keeping it functioning?

As was said before all of these coach are high quality but all have their quirks and problems, so I would also consider where I lived and where I would have to go to get it worked on.

[Archived]

Jon, I agree, the complexity part bothers me a little too.

My preference is to have 4 slides on the H3 chassis, a sofa across from the attached two euro type chairs, a dinette booth that faces the kitchen where your back is to the windows, 1.5 baths, etc.

I don’t have an iphone, I still use a flip phone (I know, I know) and I don’t text. The super automatic systems could be a problem.

Also, I ‘m not sure that I would like the pneumatic auto doors inside, are they reliable? What are Cruiseairs? I’m assuming they are not on the roof.

For anyone who wants to offer their opinion, what options would you NOT want. Heated floors is an option that we don’t have and sounds interesting.

To all, if you were going to build a new coach from the ground up, which converter would you use and why?

MM.

[Archived]

For the hands on folks, I’d asked the converter to provide the data they provide to their customers for your review. All new or newer coaches are very complex. However, with the right data some owners would be able to accomplish a lot without the support of the converter. For some converters, they employ continuous improvements from coach to coach. That’s okay, it just means the data provided to the customer would have to be specific to their build. What is a bit disappointing to me is the limited amount of data that is provided to customers by some converters. Sure, they put a lot of engineering in their conversions they want to protect. That shouldn’t mean that simple data like block diagrams, wiring diagrams, fuse and circuit breaker identification, relay locations, and programming of systems like Crestron aren’t made available.

There are a lot of great products out there that may not have problems for years to come. But when something does come up, you or your mechanic should not have to be dependent on the converter for the most basic of information.

IMO, the whole Gee-whiz factor is largely due to one converter wanting to be on par or above another converter or its simply a flexing of technology muscle. Don’t get me wrong, I love technology and when properly applied it can be a great thing. Unless most failures can be easily overcome what happens when repairs take time? Is the item or system being controlled by the automated system something you can live without for a while or is the system being controlled critical to the use of the coach. For those critical systems is there a work around to get the system to work?

Visit the plants, discuss their mindset around technology and automation and their thoughts of redundancy or work around capabilities, talk to owners of the make and model of coach you are considering, and generally gather information from wherever you can. FWIW, information provided by someone without first hand experience on the coach you are considering should be dismissed unless they are a certified or license expert on the topic they are discussing.

[George]

I will surmise from your desire to have 4 slides you will spend more time parked, less time driving. Having said that we went from a non-slide to a 2 slide and learned quickly we sacrificed a lot to get space between the sofa on one wall and the chair on the other.

Because slides add structure our bays were compromised and I gave up a lot of space on the slide side of the coach. Because slides need some type of mechanism each side of the slides caused the loss of 6 to 9″ of space that could have been another closet or a larger shower. Having slides on both sides doubles the space we lost from our non slide coach.

I make the comment about more time parked because while we can move about up front with the slides in, we need to climb over the bed to access the closet. And the space up front ain’t that great so if we were on the road a lot I would get irritated having the extra slides real quick.

A four slide coach is going to have roof airs so the Cruiseairs will not even be in your wish list.

Here’s what I don’t like….Crestron. There are aspects of it that are really convenient. When it comes to using the TV and the multiple sources (satellite, cable, DVD, over the air digital) it makes great sense. For everything else I want a switchpad conveniently located. It is a pain in the ass to open the pocket door between the kitchen and bath because I have to open a glass door, wake up the Crestron, go to the right page on the Crestron, and then search the choices until I find the virtual button to push to make the door open. When I leave a room or enter one all I want is a switch next to the doorway so I can turn the lights on or off.

All the converters use a similar system and unless you live with the system for a while you really don’t know if it is a boon or a bust.

Pocket doors have never failed to work.

Here’s what I do like……Everything else. Not kidding. The chassis is silent while traveling. No squeaks or rattles from the slides. I love the quality of the conversion. It is highly refined and with my long term experience with Liberty I fully expect it will be nearly bullet proof. I never had a problem with the Liberty systems, which have evolved over decades. They know what works and stick with it until something equally good comes along. I really like that all the electric systems are located in areas dedicated to them. The 120 volt is located upstairs behind a black glass door and all the DC low voltage is located in the second bay. The simplicity in following the systems is outstanding. If a fuse blows or a relay fails, identify the circuit number, go to the source which carries the same number, replace the failed part and you are back in business. But what is outstanding is if I have a problem or question somebody is available to address my needs. And it has been that way even when I never bought a coach from Liberty. They still were there.

I am biased and I suspect other conversions will get similar comments because that is how the converters create brand loyalty. But to specifically answer the question I would go with Liberty because I won’t own a coach without over the road heat and air, which precludes my ever having a 4 slide coach.

[Archived]

Mark,

You and I have bantered about quite a bit on other threads, that being said there are some basic questions that have to be answered.

First, no matter how you slice and dice, this coach will be a rapidly depreciating asset. Not that it is all bad but what you spend on a new coach will be halved within 18 months. Are you ready for that? As I have mentioned in other posts, I know a number of folks that use these coaches in business, be it NASCAR or whatever. These folks buy these things, keep them a couple of years and buy new again, thanks to depreciation and all of the other goodies involved when used as a business expense. At the end of the day, they are not interested in the coach as much as creating a fancy camp ground when they show up at events, nothing more, nothing less.

You mention four slides, my question is what for? Are you going to live in it, will this be your new home…if yes, then I sort of understand although a stick built house almost anywhere on the planet will be cheaper and at the end of say 5 years will, no doubt, be worth more than an aging motor home.

I bought my now antique Prevost some years ago and, yes, I have been tempted to buy another….the question remains, why? We do not use this vehicle as a home but rather as overgrown transportation from A to B to C and so on. Truth be known, I hate camp grounds, I hate Winnebago’s, I despise fifth wheels….these are the guys that you have to deal with in you KOA or whatever.

I am probably much older than you and have left behind a debris field of “things” that I have purchased ofve the years. boats, airplanes, motorcycles, collectable cars, motorhomes, vacation homes…I even got sucked into a time share in Tahiti…GAWD!.

Truth be known, your Monoco Dynasty is not a bad coach, fact is I really like them! Four slides, big engine, you already own it….its cheaper to keep her. Look out 3 to 5 years, all of our goals change.

The hunt is fun, much more fun thanthe kill…………..

Just my humble opinion

[Archived]

Fly,

Yes, I know that the depreciation is not the fun part when buying a new Prevost coach or anything else that depreciates. But, if somebody didn’t buy new, you wouldn’t have the coach that you have now. I’ve always said that a Prevost and most other top end coaches are really ‘trophy coaches’ and they kinda are. But, I want the solild built chassis that you find in a Prevost. A lot of people really wouldn’t know it’s a $2.3 million + MSRP coach, just that its a pretty nice coach.

I can handle the cost but I do want a ‘good buy’ so that’s why I’ll be comparing prices, converters and quality, etc. I really plan on this being ‘the last coach’ so it should take us into our golden years (15-20 yrs). I’m 55 now so I’ll probably be tired of it by the time I’m 75 yrs. old (My Dad is 92 so I have a pretty good chance of living long).

I want 4 slides because I like the extra room in the living area. We have four slides now and it works for us. We’ve had our current coach since new (75 miles on the odometer) as we requested a factory delivery pick-up and now have almost 65,000 miles on it. I want to sell our coach while it still has some decent value and it’s still young enough for the buyer to get a loan if that’s what they want. I understand that at 10 yrs. old for an RV, you can’t get a loan which would hurt it’s value as most people don’t have the cash.

I guess we differ on RV Parks. I like meeting people from all walks of life and I like talking to people in RV Parks. We stay at the Las Vegas Motorcoach resort quite often and a lot of those folks have Prevost coaches, etc. I find it interesting what people do in life. Once, while visiting the home of Loretta Lynn in TN, I started talking to a guy who brought his wife as she was a major fan of Loretta Lynn. Come to find out, he was a truck driver but also an author. He signed one of his books and gave it to us. Amazing what you can find out about people with small talk.

I’m not into NASCAR but I’m major into architecture, Frank Lloyd Wright, John Lautner, Richard Neutra, etc. I’ve seen a lot of homes around the country and there are a lot more to see.

Travel safe,

Mark

[Archived]

An interesting point to consider is that Liberty provides a lifetime warranty to the first owner on the house, or so I recall. It’s something to consider if you really want to keep the bus that long. Millenium or Marathon may too, but I haven’t heard it.

We moved from a Monaco Dynasty to our bus going from 4 slides to 2. Not only did I not miss the extra slides, I actually prefer not having them. For the cost of not being able to sleep sideways on the living room floor I no longer have to duck under a slide to get something out of a smaller bay.

The hunt IS more fun than the kill. But then again, the killl ain’t so bad either!

[Archived]

Interesting about Liberty Coach (haven’t contacted them yet), out of all the coaches I’ve seen for sale, new and used, they don’t have a four slide coach. Even on their ‘timeline’, they show when the first 3 slide coach was available but not a four slide.

When people mention bumping their heads on a slide when getting stuff out of the bay, most have slide trays so I don’t see a problem there. And, how much time do you actually spend at the bay vs. spending time in the living room? I would rather duck under a bay for 10 minutes and live in the two slide living room for hours on end.

But, to each his/her own, that’s why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors, to keep everybody happy.

Mark