[Bob]

I still cannot tune radio stations on my M-B because their system is so complex I have to read the owners manual each time I want a different station.

Karl on the other hand has never owned a VCR that is always flashing 12:00, but he can find and play “Yes We Have No Bananas” on his phone. (If you are under 65 you have no clue that “Yes We Have No Bananas” is a song only found on 78 RPM records).

But I know how to lube my coach. I am going to teach Karl and he is going to explain “Pandora” to me.

[Archived]

I hear you Jon. I have this stalk that I can tug on to activate the “Command” system, so complex that Mercedes gives each owner a 80 page manual on the “basics”. Theory states that you tug on the stalk, wait for the beep, then speak your mind, like turn on the radio, turn up the temperature, call home, take me to the nearest Starbucks and so on; she then gives you feedback that she has understood or in my case did not understand the “command”. Mine apparently does not understand English and consequently “bitchin betty”, as I call her, has heard all manner of profanity directed at same, perhaps it is just too smart and has now stored hostility towards me and only obeys the “commands” when she is not in a hostile mood. I even went so far as to disconnect the cars battery to erase her memory. Now if that is technology, you can have it!

Now, lift the hood on any newer car or light truck…like what you see? Plastic everywhere, who ever heard of plastic fuel injectors anyway, but they are there. How about that nice plastic intake manifold. Look around for a minute…this ain’t your daddy’s Oldsmobile. I challenge anyone to say, change the spark plugs, adjust the timing, even finding the oil/air filters can be a feat. Nothing ever get’s repaired on cars anymore, rather things are changed, A new “ignition madule”, a new “brake module”, a new “timing sensor module”….a plastic clip is removed, a steel retaining nut on an otherwise all plastic module, and the job is finished, maybe! The average mechanic, in the true sense of the word, has been replaced by someone following a checklist on a computer.

Let’s face it, technology is fine, it’s wonderful, it’s so labor saving, I love it…but, if something breaks, you are screwed! Unless able to get hold of “technical support” and lucky enough to find that special person from India who knows where to and how to jump pin C to pin out D with a 14 gauge copper wire with allegator clips…….your done! That’s all after spending hours on hold listening to Muzak (I am dating myself again) and pushing 1 , 7, 19, 32,4 on your cell phone, thence hearing “all of our agents are busy right now……..”, followed by “you call is very important to us (yeah, right) please continue to hold”…………… Cannot even find a pay phone any more so now your I-Phone 10 is running low on either signal strength or battery or both. There is a definite down side here! Less is still more!!

[John]

I can pretend to be anti technology which a lot of people associate with complexity, but to use our cars as an example those black boxes (my Corvette has 28 or 29) which are the brains of our current production vehicles work quietly and reliably behind the scenes making our cars better today than they ever have been.

You and I started driving when spark plugs hardly lasted 10,000 miles, “U” joints wore out in 50,000, points might last 20,000 and timing and dwell (anyone under 65 know what I am talking about when I say dwell?) had to be checked and set faily often.

Today except for oil and filter changes my car maintenance is making sure the tires have air, and if they don’t my dash tells me. It is common for cars to pass 100,000 miles with no problems. Nobody ever checks oil because the cars never use any. Who cares if I cannot find the spark plugs. They are good for 100,000 miles. Don’t bother looking for the distributor. There isn’t one.

And if a car throws a code, any auto parts store or Amazon will sell a reader so you can pull your own codes and reset them once you fix the problem which is spelled out in a book or if you spend enough money on the reader.

The only issue I see is nobody repairs anything as much as they replace parts. I’m enough old school that I would rather isolate and repair or rebuild stuff rather than replace, but our cost structure usually makes a repair less attractive than just swapping parts. I was ready to rebuild a failed DN50 alternator but when I added the parts costs it was cheaper to get a brand new one from Elreg (with no core charge) when I considered my time as having a little value.

But to steer this back to our coaches, I was thinking my air operated floor slide in front of the copilot is nice. But it requres a switch (actually multiple switches) valves, a pneumatic cylinder, multiple air fittings a slide track, some wires and air hose. I would be perfectly happy with one on a long piano hinge that lays flat against the dash when not in use and lays down when needed doing it by hand of course. Total moving parts: One (the hinge)

[Ronald]

I do not believe that technology means complexity, to me complexity occurs when one takes and old technology and attempts to modernize by adding components to change or modify the original design or intent. By that I do not necessarily mean complexity of operation rather complexity of the components that have been added to say make an item operate automatically or easier, cleaner, more efficiently if you prefer. Back to the shades, old technology made complex by adding all of the goodies to make them travel up an down via a switch whereas a new technology for the same result (privacy in this case) is glass that is filled with an inert gas that not only provides an r factor but also with the introduction of electrical stimuli changes color…….whites, greys or black out. There is a big difference here!

Back to the automobile scenario. Sparks plugs last because first, unleaded fuel (I believe this went into full play in 1975), that burns infinitely cleaner than the big bang stuff with tetraethyl lead. It was in the 70’s, with the broadening use of the transistor brought electronic ignitions, point and dwell problems vanished. It was in the 80’s when someone discovered you could tip the plug with platinum, spark plug life sky rocketed over the copper tips. Now we have all of these sensors, black boxes designed to further optimize the engine, plus air injector pumps,exhaust gas recirculation, catalytic converters…new technology, no,still the same old 4 cycle 5 event engine. I do see any new technology here, just an old engine design made somewhat more efficient and cleaner through complexity, if you don’t believe me then just take one apart. What about the Wankel, the Free Piston Engine, even the Turbine?

[John]

We cannot compare today’s engine with one of as recent as 20 years ago. I think a carb is pretty complex. Now we have direct injection with the amount of fuel added to the cylinder measured by the on-board computers and timed so it is introduced into the cylinder to make it as efficient as possible.

The engine not only has variable fuel timing and metering, it has variable ignition timing, variable valve timing and variable displacement. The engine looks similar to one a few decades old, but it has so much greater complexity an engine rebuilder from 20 years ago would not know where to begin repairing one.

Tire pressure monitoring systems, air bags, ABS, 8 speed automatics, and radios that play from your i-pod, satellite, AM/FM, CDs, plus have GPS, the ability to display personal photos plus store hours and hours worth of your favorite listening have replaced the AM radio in my Studebaker Lark.

Cars are no longer an assemblage of parts. What makes them work now is software. If you doubt that try starting your car with the ECM unplugged. My Studebaker Lark did not have a black box to record the last 30 seconds of driving, the engine was a cast iron flathead six that wouldn’t start in temps below 20F. The tires would last 30,000 miles if they were the best available. 20,,000 if they were OEM tires.

You suggest the windows can be self darkening. I can accept that as perhaps simpler, but what is the control and is it really simpler or less complex than a switch, some gears and an electric motor, or does it have a complex control circuit and some software to allow me to have privacy during the day, or to just darken when the sun is out while allowing me to look through them? Can I lighten them at night so we can see out? How do we control the multitude of conditions from overcast days to sunny days to day and night to my need to look out or be completely private? I suspect that is a bit more complex than suggested. Self darkening eyeglasses seem like a neat idea until we realize they won’t darken on a sunny day if you are in the car, but need direct sunlight to darken.

[Brian]

Touche! I will bet that you could take apart and re-jet/overhaul a Carter AFB or a Quadra-Jet in a New york minute. You mention on board computers, what if they are all operating on windows 8 or better yet ME? Then again, if you fail to take your car/truck/bus to someone who is a, computer saavy and b, has the right stuff to repair/upgrade the hard/software…then where are you? Big city, fine but what about a breakdown in say Malad City Idaho…..it will be your new home, at least for awhile. I chuckle at the guys who have a Garmin 1000 installed in say a 182. They can program the poop out of the thing, given enough time, but they are toast if a solar flare happens to hit one too many satellites while they are airborne or even a circuit breaker tripping on same. What’s worse they often only fly 50 miles or so, to the same destination that they have been to many times before but, alas, the Garmin will tell them when to climb, when to descend, how much fuel they are burning, what the temperature is in Athens Greece….and there they go, hammering on the keyboards for added safety whilst performing a CFIT maneuver because their eyeballs and attention are busy looking at the device.

Additionally, lets say a solar flare hits the planet, we all have heard warnings about the power grid but did you ever think about what happened to your computer controlled car/bus/truck….that’s right it won’t go. While I am quite certain that the human body can easily survive a hefty electron bath, I think it has been shown that things, like onboard computers that operate on milliamps will die…now, where are you? Not that an event like that will ever happen (hopefully) but your computer, the internet, your television, your radio, your car, your debit card, your credit card….all dead! Probably should have kep’t that Studebaker Lark and laid in that stock of water and beans…….. Wonder how many folks know what 3 on the tree is??

Let’s agree to disagree…….

[Archived]

Curb feelers, milk boxes, rabbit ears, transistor radios, etc.

As to what was fast becoming or had become when I quit flying was the loss of positional awareness because pilots flew the magenta line. The older pilots on here will know what I mean. The newer pilots I flew with couldn’t find their way onto and around an approach if they didn’t have the pretty picture. I knew all was lost when Cirrus pilots who lost control were instructed to pull the handle on the parachute. I still remember when it was the pilot’s duty to fly the plane.

[David]

For the record, at 55 I do know Jimmy Durante sang that song and have used a dwel-tach meter and timing light. Heck, I have also “gapped” buzz boxes on a 1918 Model T Ford. Now talk about simplicity. Not even a water pump to replace!!!

[Archived]

Jon, I think tube radio was what you meant. Not transistor.

If you still have one save that tube radio for the solar flare event, John.

JIM eek

[JIM]

I’m not that old Jim. I remember delivering newspapers with a transistor radio in my shirt pocket. The radio in the Studebaker Lark was a tube radio.

[Dick]

We have Creston and have had nothing but trouble. We would love to turn our TVon and off ourselves as we are very capable. I like the auto blinds and a few other things no need for all the bells they just malfuction and cause tempers to rise and take big bucks from your wallet.

[Archived]

It would be a tremendous help if you are seeking information or advice to add a signature line so we all know the age, converter and get a sense of what you have.

[Dick]

Also, you have posted on 3 different topics about Crestron, please go to electrical and continue there. It helps with the search function going forward.