-
A QUESTION FOR NEW ONWERS
-
Tom,
Read what you quoted again. Read the next sentence from my post if it helps you.
I trust no one would install anything but their best tires on the steer axle.
-
Yes we have Paul, but our take is everything on this forum is an attempt to help owners and would be owners and no one has ever stated or claimed to be an expert on any particular subject. The experts have a business, factory trained techs, insurance, pay taxes and have the special tools and expertise to provide services. Many of those are our Advertisers.
If I was a shade tree mechanic, with no business license, no insurance, getting paid in cash, paying no taxes, soliciting business while blowing my horn on any forum about all my abilities and expertise, I would be terrified about liabilities or worse. Further, that won’t happen on this forum because it would be a direct slap in the face to our paying advertisers.
-
Paul,
I would hope that we who post make our responses clear if what we are saying is supported by fact or documentation or if not that what we say is opinion. That helps the reader sort out the information they need from something that might not be true or applicable.
I occasionally try to post so folks understand that free advice is worth every penny you pay for it.
Most folks are very clear on the fact forums can be riddled with bad information. Tom and I are aware of that and while it is not our responsibility we try to correct information that we know to be incorrect or misleading by a follow up post or some reference. We are especially vigilant if the issue is safety related but we cannot ever promise all posted on this site or any other is accurate. All most of us are doing is using our experiences to formulate responses.
If the courts ever find against someone that posts bad information on a forum, or against a forum that has bad posts you will see a change of epic proportions on the internet.
Tom references shade tree mechanics on another site and he is absolutely correct in that people who set themselves up as experts and then solicit customers from the forum place themselves the forum, and the customers at risk because generally they have no formal training, no credentials, no insurance, and some of their advice and worksmanship is very dangerous. We are trying very hard to never allow anyone like that to participate as “experts” espcially since they are taking business away from legitimate businesses with insurance, facilities, and proven and documented expertise.
But anyone can sue anyone else any time and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent that.
-
You guys do it right I like that a lot, me I try to help some poor soul on the BCM or BNO and it falls on deaf ears they spend their last dollars on a 50 year old bus it breaks down they spend. 20,000 for engine on a bus worth 75000 tell me what is the point.
Sure they may not be able to afford a 2007 Prevost but I have bought and sold some nice late model low mileage Prevosts from the 80’s for under 30 grand you guys have answers lol I don’t and I am giving up even trying to help
Jon was trying to help one guy on the BCM that guy is going to buy a 10,000 piece of junk he has his mind made up and is not going to listen to anyone
Sorry I got off track guys but it bothers me when people do stupid things a different breed of dog I guess
good luck
-
Tough! In LB post. The first the engine case the money wasn’t the biggest issue. If it were? run fast!!! The second the $10,000 bus.The person is new to the life style and has a idea that may be more glamorus than reality. Hope that made sense. I have to agree about buying a coach. I could go buy a nice Liberty XLII . Just do upkeep and put fuel in it. My problem I like to build. Does it make $$$ sense.Noooooo. Need a 420 Sea Ray?? Bob
-
We have touched on the cost of ownership on these threads, but I’m not sure it has been pulled together into one easily accessible spot. Maybe an article would help however when we talk about costs some things are kind of universal such as budgeting for tires and batteries. We cannot ignore the cost of insurance, licensing, and providing shelter for the coach and those are not universal in the sense those costs vary widely.
But the greatest variable is routine maintenance. Some owners do 100% of their own. Some do none of their own. Some turn the keys over to Prevost or their converter or Detroit Diesel and say “take care of it” and others manage the service using qualified mechanics but with much lower costs. As a result I will often try to put out the costs for part and the hours I would guess a job would take.
But to a person considering a coach they are going to have a hard time trying to put together a budget because they likely will need a little experience before they can determine if they want an agressive preventive maintenance program in which they replace parts and perform service in advance of the need, or if they will wait for a failure such as a brake chamber or air bag before they service those items.
And then there is fuel. Based on current prices it is probably reasonable to assume for every mile the coach rolls it is going to burn $.60 to $.80 worth of fuel give or take a few cents either way. If a person knows how many miles they will drive each year they can then guess how much to set aside for that.
But as regular readers of this forum know I point out regularly that no matter what the annual cost of fueling and maintaining a coach is, on average depreciation is going to exceed all other costs combined yet almost nobody ever thinks of that when buying a coach. Obviously a coach that is dirt cheap will not have a high depreciation, but in exchange for shelter from depreciation owners of those coaches could be most at risk of high cost unplanned repairs such as on an engine or transmission so the bottom line is we all have to be prepared for a serious bill like on an engine replacement, with the risk increasing as coaches get older and especially if they haven’t been well maintained.
But if Bob thinks building his own bus doesn’t make sense, he can extend that to say owning a bus also doesn’t make sense. Not financially anyway.
-
Don’t really know how to take that? Have a friend that has 108 tractors. Haven’t set foot on the boat this year. I love the bus building and people involved. If you think your going to make a big killing on resale, you might be one of the 10% that gets lucky. I met some fo the best people in the world(thru Bussin) that seems to bridge some of the economic class gaps that exist in our society. Shame you have to be old to realize what is important. So to new owners/buyers… Check things out–ask questions? if it sounds strange–it is! To many honest deals to be had now to except 2nd best..
-
What I am saying Bob is whether we build a coach or buy a store bought none of us can make financial sense out of it.
I long ago realized having a bus is a great way to burn money, but you are correct in that there is no better way to meet some great folks
-
There are so many interesting topics in this thread that I scarcely know where to begin. So, please excuse the rambling nature of my post.
I’m still on my first bus and am looking for my second as we speak. My 1997 Liberty has been an adventure from the start. It’s worth noting that it’s one of the founding POG busses, having been Mango Mike’s “Mother Ship” in a previous life. Now it’s called the Zed, because the paint job has giant Z’s on the side, and because my website (QRZ.com) is also referred to by the same name.
On our very first trip we had transmission problems. These were sorted out due to operator error (misuse of the retarder) and we then went on to enjoy a 10,000 mile trip with no major problems. Minor issues, however, were and continue to be a daily part of the routine. It’s a good thing that I’m a handyman because I fix about 90% of the problems myself. I’m fond of showing off the coach and I always show them the nice, slide-out toolbox noting that it has a nice toolbox because it needs one, almost every day.
Now, 3 years and 30,000 miles after having made the purchase, I’ve learned a lot about the beast, and could even give Mango Mike a tip or two. I’ve upgraded many things such as TV’s, Satellite, Antennas, Silverleaf, LED lighting, floors, faucets, stereos, bluetooth, GPS, etc., and have generally enjoyed doing it. Some things still befuddle me, however, such as how to get a few strands of Cat-5 cabling run between the front and rear TV cabinets. Maybe someday, or maybe not, if I sell it first.
Minor problems have been numerous and varied. On the inside, I’ve replaced half a dozen mirrored cabinet pulls. Mirror panels have fallen off the walls on numerous occasions, sometimes with a crash to the floor. Thought we had toilet problems, but it turned out to be just the air pressure in the tank. Cabinet latches, a.k.a. “J-hooks”, are a dime a dozen and we lose one or two on every trip. Forgetting to plug in shore power – drained the batteries to 8 volts after two days. Lost the transmission (not really, but it quit working) in Billings, Montana. Didn’t enjoy the un-planned 10 day layover there, but did buy a dog to keep us company. Lived at the repair shop for a week, in a bad part of town. Ran out of water, learned how to correctly prime the Paragon (there’s a lever for that!), main awning failed due to pawl latch break. Lost a cruiseair compressor (locked up). Had an oil leak on the Delco generator. Insulation panel above the starboard drive wheel fell down, replaced numerous Norgren valves, replaced engine belt air bags, replaced main brake valve (under foot pedal), got the leans fixed by a repair shop, now there’s a slow leak in the mains. Tag axle lift was jammed (rusted) and had to be freed and lubricated. Lost a hub cap. Fixed webasto control circuit (dust under plug-in diode). Added a second toe kick heater (the Classic only came with one, but thankfully, Liberty pre-wires all coaches to Elegant standards). replaced all of the side lights with LED’s, added LED under bay lighting.
I’m sure I left a few things off the list. My wife has, at times, been quite exasperated, thinking that we bought a lemon. I’ve just about convinced her, however, that such things are par for the course and that every coach, new or old, will need some TLC to keep it in top shape. I love to tinker and so this old bus has been a lot of joy for me, most of the time. I’ve picked up some nice tools along the way as well. I’m ready, however, to move into the XLII series to see what wonderful new adventures await me.
By the way, I don’t do routine maintenance. That is, I don’t do oil changes, and that’s because I have no way of handling the by-products of such an operation, and, I don’t have a garage where I can perform such work. I’d love to have access to the underside, such as a pit, but I’ll have to find new property and build a bus barn for that. Meanwhile, I’m still a happy camper and will gladly pay for certain things that I realize are beyond my abilities.
Why do we do this? There is no rational explanation, other than just living the life. When my friends ask me what part of it do I enjoy the most, I always say: “Turning the ignition key to Start”!
-
Rodger,
You can run a CARFAX report on Prevost or any other vehicle that is new enough to have a 17 digit serial number.
-
I read many of the posts that talk of cost of ownership and I don’t see it. Of course I’ve owned a yacht before and there’s just no comparison. Fuel alone for a boat makes the cost owning a Prevost a fraction of boat ownership. Whether your choice of yacht is land or sea based, I hope no one ever bought either as an investment. We own them for our pleasure and all pleasures have their price.
-
Good post Fred, a few of us are still around to remember the maiden voyage of the Mothership and the many adventures that followed. Keep the Z machine running and don’t be afraid of the XLII, come on in, the waters fine!
-
Didn’t realize the famous “Mother Ship” had a direct connection to QRZ.com, a site a use daily and is much depended upon. Great job!
Paul Horner, KK4ISZ
-
“I read many of the posts that talk of cost of ownership and I don’t see it. Of course I’ve owned a yacht before and there’s just no comparison. Fuel alone for a boat makes the cost owning a Prevost a fraction of boat ownership. Whether your choice of yacht is land or sea based, I hope no one ever bought either as an investment. We own them for our pleasure and all pleasures have their price.”
It’s all relative. I’ve never had a yacht but if I compare my plane with my coach there is no comparison. But if I compare my coach to one of my cars there is no comparison either. The last sentence in Gil’s post nails it.
Log in to reply.