[Rodger]

Regardless of the converter there are going to be constants on the big money items. Do the AC units work? What age and condition are the tires and batteries? Are the inverters working? Are there maintenance records?

It doesn’t matter who the converter is when answering any of those questions and none require converter specific knowledge. Prove to a buyer those items are working, that the tires and batteries are relatively new, and that the buyer doesn’t have to change Transynd or coolant because those are recently completed maintenance events and the buyer knows he has avoided thousands of dollars of expense.

Often the reason we provide advice about checking things like that is in an effort to help a novice Prevost buyer to avoid making a very expensive decision because they did not know what they did not know.

It was on this forum that a new owner bought a coach with a serious and expensive problem because the salesman told him “they all do that.” And not a single one of us had the opportunity to stick our nose in and help the fellow member because we did not know of the problem until after the owner was along side the road. The purchase price for advice he would have been given would have been free, but the advice would have proven very valuable.

I understand your thinking Ed, is in the context of your converter, but keep in mind we all have Prevost in common.

I never thought of my coach as a 26 ton barge of happiness, but it is a perfect description. Good one.

[Paul]

Jon,

As a new owner of an 07 Marathon… both you and Tom and many other members of the forum were and continue to be a huge help as we venture into Prevost ownership. Just about 6 months into it… things are going well… In my personal expereince I most likely would have made some ugly mistakes without the input from this community. Having to do it all again I would do a few things differently, but for the most part, I am happy with how my deal worked out and how the bus is performing…

I have to say… having this community has been a real blessing… Just in the short time that I have owned it I have done some stupid stuff… got into a bind and the people here have to a person all been a great help. Fellow Marathon owner Al has just picked up the phone and called me after reading a post of mine to offer personal Help. Peter has offered to let me park my bus in his CO building and have my family stay there while I work in denver… From my perspective it doesn’t get any better than that… People who I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting in person… willing to help…. is really refreshing these days. So from my perspective keep doing what you are doing.. I like the idea of creating a overal document of things to consider… one thing I wish I would have looked into further was GVW and the whole topic of CCC… but I have worked thru that with help of PC members…

Hope we get to meet some or all of you down the road…

Thanks again…

Bill

[Larry & Diane]

Knowlege is power. The more that we know about something the better the decision we can make. I just purchased the 1st Prevost. I have wanted one since I was 30, and now can afford one, but I used this forum and other people’s feedback to ask the right questions and was aware of things to look for, before I purchased. Not everyone will make this effort, and they may experience the pit falls that come by not getting educated. Since I have made my purchase I am still gathering information, and I have already talked with a hand full of people that are making their 1st Prevost purchase and I have offered my limited knowledge, but I am sure I have helped them.

[Archived]

I am thinking of some way that perhaps PC could figure out a way to “Reach Out” venues that are selling and or servicing our beloved Behmoths. Meaning, sort of like Car Fax….a person interested in a bus,be made aware of PC and its endeavors to be a Big Brother to furture owners. Not an easy undertaking,after all, if a bus is for sale,why not trust the salesperson without a Bus Fax? Just trying to think through this…too many people do not know about PC and what it can do for (and to!) YOU.

[Bob]

As someone without a bus and looking to have one as some
point, this topic caught my eye. I have
enjoyed reading this board and the other boards as I to try to get as much
information as possible about buses. A
year into reading, I think that I am way more educated than I was, but nearly
as educated as I would like to be.

I do not mind it when someone states an opinion. After reading for awhile, I have a sense of
whose opinion to trust, and whose opinion to verify with more research. The important thing is that there be a
discussion so we are exposed to the many different viewpoints. All in all, I would rather have someone “stick
their nose” in my business and tell me something that I already know than to
have someone be silent and have me make a mistake because I was acting on
incomplete or erroneous information.

With that being said, I would like to put out some suggestions
for evaluation.

1. What about creating a new forum entitled “Want to buy a
Prevost, start here” or something similar.
Place it at the top of the page. There are many good articles posted on
this site. The Admins could pick out the
best articles pertaining to buying and maintaining a Prevost and embed links to
them within a thread that is pinned to the top.

I would keep most of the threads in it locked. It would be like an online book. If a thread on buying pops up in another
forum, it could be allowed to run its course, locked, and then moved.

2. Gary LaBombard had a bad experience buying an Eagle. He has a CD that he put together on the
process at http://www.busconverter101.com/aboutus.html. A thread or two on problem buses and
inspections in the new forum could be
helpful. I do not know Gary and do not have the CD. I am mentioning it as a type of resouces that we could create here.

3. Speaking of the prepurchase inspection, the members of
this community could create an Excel spreadsheet pre purchase inspection checklist
(similar to the pre trip, or annual inspection checklist in the articles
section of the website). After each
item, there could be a price range to fix after it, and/or more instruction on
how to inspect.

4. Valuation. After
reading several of these websites, I still do not have a good idea on how to
value a bus. An article on valuation and source for valuation would be helpful.

5. Sources for buses.
There are many avenues for purchasing a bus: converters, advertisers on
this site, EBay, wholesalers, private party,
insurance auctions, repossessions, etc. A
discussion of the pros and cons of each along with sources might speed up the
learning curve for potential buyers. Remember, there are all types of potential buyers. From those that can drop over a million without a second thought to someone who wants to buy a cheap bus and fix it up themselves to meet their needs. As a community, we grow if we can cast a wide enough net to catch every type of potential owner.

As someone studying buses, these are a few things that might help me.

[Archived]

To Ed’s point, we cannot answer questions that have not been asked so everyone on all forums all over the internet has to either wait for a question, or make a post offering advice based on personal experience.

The problem as I see it is some buyers complete the purchase and then find their way to forums seeking help. The solution obviously is to find some way to make those buyers aware of sources of information so the purchase experience does not turn into a disaster.

Rodger’s suggestion is a good one, but not all sellers are going to say to a prospective customer “before you make a decision get involved in PC so you can make an informed purchase.” When we get right down to it most purchases are adversarial with the seller wanting to take as much of the buyer’s money as possible, and the buyer wanting to get the most coach as possible for the least amount of money. So despite the pleasantries there is a situation established with opposing objectives.

I’m afraid with the complexity of our coaches, the variety of conversions, and the fact we have to have buyers come to this site and ask questions before we can help there are going to be some sad stories. Even if a potential buyer seeks help from members of this site that buyer has to understand the limitations of the answers Only an experienced Vantare owner of the vintage being considered for purchase can offer the best advice on a pre-purchase inspection. And then even with experience that experienced owner can only offer advice based on his or her experiences. But one thing is for sure, advice from owners is way better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Many of us have tried to create a generic pre-purchase check list. I don’t think it can be done. The best we can do is cover the big items such as air conditioners, and then encourage the buyer to be detailed in evaluating the other items.

With sellers I can offer this unsolicited advice. Clean up your coach, detail it, and at least fix the obvious stuff like stains or tears or loose handles. Then make sure the big stuff is right. Make sure all the AC works, not only the roof or Cruiseairs, but the driver’s air or OTR if the coach has it. If you can tell the buyer the age of the tires and batteries before the buyer comes to look at the coach. Those two items could be a $10,000 sticking point and it leaves a bad taste in the buyer’s mouth if they are in need of replacement and that was not revealed up front.

For buyers I can offer this unsolicited advice. Forget the colors. Yes they are important and nobody should have to live with a decor or color scheme they don’t like, but unless the colors or decor really suck, look beyond them at the coach and its condition. Unless you like to flip coaches and trade often concentrate on if the systems and the features meet your needs and the condition of the coach.

Our second coach was off the charts as far as decor and color and was not for us. We would not have ordered it. But when it came available we liked the systems and saw it was in great shape. And over time we came to like the “off the wall” colors and decor.

Tom has far more experience buying and selling coaches and I suspect he should chime in on this topic.

[Fred]

I think a generic pre purchase inspection with nominal pass/fail information is very doable…it will just take time. It won’t be 100% as converters didn’t do everything the same, but they did use the same generic components. I’m pretty PDI are being conducted buy converters and conversion focused facilities. I’m guessing they are comprehensive and based on a checklist.

Is there anyone out their that paid a professional for a PDI? If so, was your PDI report one that showed everything inspected with nominal readings, like you would expect from a home inspection, or did it simply state items requiring attention? They are likely proprietary, so you shouldn’t post them.

[gary]

A number of us have tried to create a checklist, but the two problems we always encounter are the inspection sequence and what items there are to check. No two converters locate things in the same spot so what might be a systematice sequence for my coach, might be all wrong for another with a different floor plan or equipment location. I once spent an hour trying to find the 120 volt electric panel in a Marathon. Mine is in the kitchen area. The Marathon was behind a mirror in the toilet area. I have seen them in the bedroom behind a panel near the floor. So where in the sequence do we include that for example? How can we discuss the operation of a Webasto or Aquahot if the coach has suburban propane furnaces and there are multiple ones and they are scattered through the coach?

So in an article I wrote a long time ago I suggested starting a a specific point in the coach and systematically pushing every button, turning ever knob and operating every switch to verify the operation of whatever the device or system is.

We cannot even write a generic one for the chassis with any specificity because my Liberty leveling system is not like and does not operate like a Prevost Level Low or an HWH and my slides may not operate like someone else’s non-Prevost slides Obviously pushing a button to open or close slides is going to be the same from coach to coach, but a buyer also needs to learn and verify the abnormal slide operations such as manual retractions.. So the important thing is to just encourage the buyer to work with the seller to prove the operation of everything.

But the problem is not a checklist. The problem is far too often buyers never do the necessary prep work prior to a purchase and only after the purchase do they begin posting and revealing what they did not do as far as inspections before money changed hands. They probably feel bad, are afraid to admit they might have bought the first bus they saw, and might even be reluctant to post questions, instead they take their new purchase to someplace to fix a problem only to get their wallets vacuumed. The problem is how can we help folks before they enter the school of hard knocks? Or do we have to wait for the inevitable first post?

I admit to considerable luck in my purchase of the first coach, but the one thing I did that I never was advised to do was to have a converter (Don Hoffman or Hoffman Coach) do a 100% inspection. Even thought the coach was a Liberty he went through the coach systematically checking everything and at the same time telling me what he was doing, how things worked, and verifying it worked properly. At the time I had no clue so even though the coach was less than 2 years old I didn’t know what I didn’t know and recognized the need for help. I was lucky he agreed to do the inspection and I was lucky it occurred to me I couldn’t rely on my ability to check it out. I am glad he did not do the inspection alone and give me a report. The inspection was my initial learning. That was followed by Harvey Mitchell who sold the coach originally providing 4 days of training on his sales lot in Tampa.

[Jim]

Mark,

Really dismount and x-ray a tire to determine whether it’s servicable? That seems so extreme and possibly what someone might want to do to a fairly new tire that was run too low on air before discarding it. For normal conditions Michelin just does a visual inspection.

Tires are obviously critical and should be inspected regularly, pressures checked daily, and replaced at the first signs of fatique or of the owner’s chosen schedule. I certainly am not one that wants to scrimp on spending when it relates to safety. I also don’t want to spend needlessly. Michelin warrants RV tires for 6 years, so if they have that level of faith and more imporatntly they determine very limited risk at 6 years, I will side with them and not change a servicable tire at 5 years. My threshold for replacing good tires is 7-8 years. When I bought my coach I needed to immediately replace at least 6 tires. Six tires is all I could find within 400 miles of where I bought the coach. I’m now needing to replace what still appears to be very servicable tag tires, but they are approaching 8 years old. I’ll replace those 2 and have them moved to the steer axle. At no time do I want to take a risk on the steer axle. Even though the steer’s are less than 2 years old the few dollars it cost to have then exchanged with the new tag axle tires is well worth it, at least to me.

Again, tires are critical and I’m not suggesting anyone run them to the 10 years allowed by Michelin even if they do pass Michelin’s visual inspection.

[Archived]

The risk we face with tires is unless we bought them new and unless we never let pressures drop below the 20% less than specified pressures we really cannot rely solely on tread depth or date codes. So for a buyer when it comes to the tires on a coach they are at risk even if the tires are well within the age ranges specified by the manufacturer.

A coach I looked at had been driven to a meeting point. When I checked the pressure in a front tire prior to going on the test drive it was at 70 PSI. The pressure should have been 105. According to all tire manufacturers that tire was junk regardless of its age. If the seller had inflated the tire to the correct pressure the buyer would have never known that tire was a blowout waiting to happen.

So while I will agree with Gil regarding his plan on when to replace his tires as a buyer I would take a more conservative approach in viewing tires as to their acceptability.

[Archived]

If everything was perfect these coaches would only be built once! If every salesman were honest——;big if? If every salesman was knowledgeable about his product–biggest possibility he is not! You guys are correct there could list. Best List is show me how it works! No excuses! Explain codes on tires/batt. What is that smell? Why was bus running before I got here? At least spend the nite in it before they have your money. Seller is too bussy for you? Maybe he really isn’t seller but a person trying to decieve you. I haven’t the $$$ to buy the high end coaches most of you do! These were my simple requirements. Another common statement recent overhaul or repair—show Me proof!….I’m on the economy end if someone needs help there. Bob

[Paul]

Jon makes a great point that’s not just applicable to tires. Any system on a coach that was not properly maintained is at risk of premature failure. Obviously, tires being the most critical. Sadly, tire pressure which is key to normal tire life and safety, appears to be one of the most difficult items for many owners to understand. Given it’s the owner that has the responsibility for tire pressure, we all need to fully understand the tire pressure we should use in our tires and check them at the start of each day on the road.

Many of us subscribe to the philosohy that all routine maintenance items will need addressing when purchasing a used coach, especially an older one. Once you’ve factored $10-$15K to address all routine items, anything that doesn’t end up needing replaced can go to the diesel fuel and RV resort fund. In my case, I busted that budget by a bit. I did so knowing the last thing I wanted was to be stranded on the side of the road in the Yukon Territory or remote reaches of Alaska.

[Archived]

I’m now needing to replace what still appears to be
very servicable tag tires, but they are approaching 8 years old. I’ll
replace those 2 and have them moved to the steer axle.

Gil – Your going to move 8 year old tag tires to the steer and put
new on the tag? I would never put anything but new tires on the
steer, especially tag tires that have spent their life scuffing and
possibly curbed a time or two by previous owners.

[Archived]

Jon asked, “Is there a way we as a community can help others?”

I purchased my first coach less than a year ago. The biggest “need” I had at that time was the services of a inspector. I purchased my coach in houston and would have thought in such a large city someone would offer these services. I could not locate anyone to do this. A list of companies willing to do inspections or members willing to do inspections would be a big item if it could be put together.

I was not aware of this board until after I bought the coach but, I did do my homework from other boards and had to do my inspection in about 6 hrs. Was I totally prepared- no. Was I better prepared – yes. Did I get a couple of susprises – of course. Could I have gotten a better pricepoint with more information – maybe, maybe not. I would have paid for the inspection to have been better educated.

I wanted an older coach that had the biggest chunk of depriciation out of it. One that was reduced in price, simplier to operate and maintain. (i’m still baffled why I need an air operated sliding door.) Will I have more initial maintenence in tires at the end of life and batteries to be replaced – yes. But I factored that into my offer. And those have to be replaced on such a frequency that it almost doesn’t matter. If they get replaced this year or next they still have to be replaced again in 5 to 10 years. Sometimes I think the boards make too big an issue of this ititial issue for the older coaches. Make everyone aware of the issue but, don’t scare folks off.

[Archived]

I really hate to bring this up, but I think it’s an issue worth consideration.

All of the advice, information, specifications, and opinion given on this forum is intended to be helpful and I believe is given in the sincere interest of sharing knowledge and personal experiences. However, none of us are “experts”.

It is possible that someone, perhaps someone who only reads this as part of the public access, who relies on something they have read and things don’t turn out exactly how they expected it to. Or, it becomes a more costly experience as a result of following “advice” they found here, information that was given solely in an effort to be of help.

And now, that reader decides that “somebody” needs to be held accountable, and financially responsible, for their disappointment.

As this is public, and none of the information presented here is given with the understanding that it is expert opinion, has there been any thought to potential liability?