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It just amazes me that we complain about our politicians, but they keep getting voted back in. The Kennedy, Clinton and Bush dynasties. Here in Oregon, we had a lousy Governor that ran two terms, then his successor ran two terms and then he came around again and the voters voted him in again for two more terms. The only thing that got him out early on his fourth term was it became apparent that his Girlfriend ( the first lady) was running the State.

So now they are thinking gasoline tax by the mile because too many people are driving fuel-efficient cars. I don’t know what they think they will do about the people from other states driving through.

[Steve]

It is mildly dispiriting but not uncommon for internet posts to be dead wrong or to blow things out of proportion, both of which seemed to have happened with the original post and many of the follow ups. The CA regulations effective the first of the year ban commercial vehicles with engines more than 20 years old; i.e. pre- 1996. However, engines pre 2007 do need to have a particulate filter added to the exhaust, which is probably not cheap. I suspect there aren’t that many OTR truckers or reputable bus lines running 20+ year old engines, but there are longer phase-in periods for small fleets and the state offers financial assistance for those needing help to comply. By the way, these regulations have been in place since 2008, so they are not suddenly being sprung on truckers and they were adopted by the Air Resources Board appointed by the Republican governor Arnold Schwartzeneger. The compliance deadlines were actually extended by the current Board appointed by that communist Gerry Brown. As has been noted, diesel motorhomes are explictly exempt from the emissions regs regardless of year.

It is mildly dispiriting that no one has yet noted that California emissions and fuel efficiency standards have resulted in the nationwide adoption of very clean, safe and efficient vehicles. Despite dire predictions that everyone would be forced to drive a Prius, one can still walk into a Dodge dealer and buy a 700+ horsepower car if they want to. Produciton cars that accelerate from 0 to 60 under 5 seconds are not just common, but very common, and under 3 second cars are available, too. And the nation’s fleet is dramatically more fuel efficient and dramatically less polluting than cars of just 5 years ago.

It is terribly dispiriting that anyone would avoid entering a state just because they disagree with the political leanings of many of its residents. Has our intollerance of opinions other than our own really come to this? Is our political discourse really so degraded?

It is terribly dispiriting that some people, including those who profess to be strongly religious, think that God created the Earth so that man might degrade and destroy it as quickly and profitably as possible, without the slightest thought about what happens tomorrow if it interferes with their enjoyment of today.

It is mildly dispiriting that the “no politics” rule on this site really only applies to politics that the moderators disagree with.

All in all, I guess I’m pretty dispirited. The only thing I can think to do about it is to wish everyone a happy and harmonious New Year!

[Karl]

Brian,

The first post was mine. A local boy here from Illinois who trucks for a living sent me this saying it had just came up on his device. I don’t even know what the device is but Tom had a name for it. He wondered how it would effect my old bus. That is why I posted. I only asked a couple of questions hoping one of you Cali boys could answer them.

And yes, It won’t be long before my DD60 will be 20 years old. As far as politics goes, We all will agree or disagree, but that is no reason to get upset..

And a Happy New Year to you and yours,

Steve

[Greg]

Bryan I love southern Cal but I think Mexico is taking it back without firing a shot.

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”It is terribly dispiriting that anyone would avoid entering a state just because they disagree with the political leanings of many of its residents. Has our intollerance of opinions other than our own really come to this? Is our political discourse really so degraded?“

Bryan,

I don’t think that the politics of the state are what would keep people out, though the laws that result from those politics certainly may. Personally I find the taxes to be overbearing and felt that the laws to make me “safe” in every facet of my existence were too. Now, I’ll admit that I appreciated the bike lanes when we rode through town, but the cost to experience them wasn’t, in my opinion, worth it. We have most of the same here in Florida and taxes are much lower.

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I rode in a 100% electric car not long ago. Pretty quick 0-60 in about 4 seconds without much racket. Nothing special at normal highway speeds – in fact I think a gas powered Merc S class might actually be a bit quieter.

Anyhow –

I was listening to a news program tonight and they had an expert on that said if you charge your electric car from a coal fired plant you will actually be polluting more than a conventional car. They also mentioned that 10% of the emissions from a typical car (over its life) are actually from the manufacturing processes used to produce it.

sooo,

Sounds like to me – mandating new equipment just for the sake of “new” might actually pollute more than keeping the older fleet well maintained and running. Additionally, using electric vehicles appears to just move the pollution to someone else’s back yard.

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It is mildly dispiriting that the “no politics” rule on this site really only applies to politics that the moderators disagree with.

Well Bryan, I’m one of those moderators and I didn’t say jack about CA, I could, but you wouldn’t like my non political comments either.

[Archived]

Bryan,

I agree with the sentiment of your post and if my posts contributed to inspiring you to make your post I apologize.

Put me in the category of people who are very concerned about how far the concerns about emissions are going.

Let me create a mental picture of why I think regulators (all regulators, not just CA) are getting unreasonable.

In your mind imagine a typical table and let us represent the area of the table top as the emissions from engines designed and built with no consideration given to emissions. We can use an 8V92 engine as an example of just such an engine.

Now picture a sheet of paper and its area compared to the table top as representing the allowable emissions from the first emission controlled engines. The early Series 60 engines would be a good example of that engine. Compared to an 8V92 the original Series 60 engines were very clean and were substantially reducing emissions.

Next picture a post card to represent the Series 60 with EGR. The area of a post card compared to a piece of paper is quite small and is tiny compared to the original table top. That represents substantial strides in reducing emissions.

Today engines with DEF, particulate filters and all the other features that reduce emissions can be represented by a postage stamp. The strides made in reducing emissions are enormous if you consider the relative sizes of the table top compared to the postage stamp.

You are correct in stating commercial truckers are rarely using old technology engines because few truckers can afford to be running 20 year old engines. They would be worn out and unreliable. But keep in mind as a CA resident there is a ripple effect and the state’s stance on emissions is just one example of how the state’s residents and visitors are being pecked to death. And it continues with no one seeming to object or shine a light on things that cross the line. It might be painful to talk about how far regulators should go, but it also might be productive to ask when enough is enough. Does the state really feel threatened if I have a head of lettuce in my refrigerator? Really? No other state gets upset if I arrive with food in my refrigerator.

I guess my point is my serious concerns about the regulations CA residents appear willing to support and live with spreading to my state. And those concerns are not exclusively about emissions, but the entire menu of regulations and decisions coming from the state that border on insanity.

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well written Jon !

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I will say great post Jon, I also hope the regulations of Cal. stay in Cal. And as Jon pointed out, { example }my first provost was an 8V92, I promise you would not leave in running long when You put it in my enclosed bus garage and you would be in no hurry to close door due to fumes. But with my emissions DPF series 60 I now have you hardly smell any diesel fumes if any at all.

Bill S.

[Per]

Bryan,

I forgot to respond to your point about politics and this forum.

Yes this discussion has a tinge of politics, but the greater issue as I interpret the discussions is more about rules and regulations, especially emissions which has a significant impact on all of us. In discussions about mother hood and apple pie we can talk about environmental regulations and I suspect none of us wants to be viewed as pushing for a return to black smoke belching two cycle diesel engines and cars with carbs and a choke.

Those laws protect us all, and hopefully future generations. But we also have to recognize the consequences and try to deal with the best blend of common sense and meeting clean air objectives. As a gear head of sorts when the cars of the early 70’s first started with emissions controls we all saw performance and mileage suffer. But what we have learned from that is the evolution of technology has been so successful we can have cars like the high HP Dodge and still protect the environment. As this relates to our coaches is our diesel emissions technology is where our car technology was in 1973. We have external “band aids” to do the job and as technology moves ahead we may find 1000 HP diesel engines with high torque returning twice the mileage of today exhausting air cleaner than what went into the air filter. But if the regulars want to strangle the economy they can ignore the lack of technology and just keep jamming new standards down our throats with such a small return on investment that commerce eventually shuts down.

I guess that is a political discussion but I still believe the greater discussion is how and when this impacts us and for that reason I think it is appropriate. It has been said these regs do not apply to us because we are RVs. I contend the more correct statement is it does not apply to us yet. The camel has his nose in the tent.

Thank goodness the pollution from China and the Russian nuclear disaster is stopped at their respective borders so the responsibility for cleaning the planet’s air does not fall solely on our shoulders. If we truly want to deal with environmental issues now all we have to do is pass simple legislation in Congress to say we are not allowed to import any goods or services into the US that have not been made in compliance with the laws and regulations our domestic manufacturers and service providers have to meet. In other words if we buy a TV from China or wherever, it must have been built in a factory that meets our environment, OSHA, and wage laws and regulations, and have been built and shipped on vehicles that meet our emission standards. Since we have been exporting our pollution for years perhaps it is time to recognize the problem is global and if we feel the standrads we impose domestically are that important we need to stop talking from both sides of our mouth and apply our domestic rules to protect the environment we have been polluting offshore.

Is that politics? I don’t know. But one thing is for sure, and that is we will not roll back regulations and as those regulations are imposed on us it will and already has had a significant impact on our coaches with the promise of even greater impacts in years to come.

I hope Tom responds also, but there are just going to be some instances when things that affect us as Prevost owners have to be discussed. I think we cross the line when the discussion starts involving office holders or candidates and we are debating their virtues and vices. I also think we cross the line when we discuss hot button issues like gun control. I am not so sure environmental standards that have had the impact on our coaches as we are seeing today would be inappropriate.

[Gerald]

I have nothing more to add to the CA subject than my one sentence above.

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As a truck fleet owner that has weekly trips to/from CA we’ve been dealing with this BS for several years now. YES the law is in effect BUT… CARB doesn’t have the resources to enforce the laws….we’re still running “illegal” trucks there and will continue until they start enforcing the law. Fortunately the majority of our rigs are compliant but the older ones will need to be sold in the near future.

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Karen and I visited California for the first time this spring and enjoyed it very much. Being rural NC folks we appreciated not only the beautiful farm lands, but the rugged coast line and the towering trees. We were never questioned about driving our stinky 8V92 the length of the state even if the highlight of our trip was a visit to the Ronald Regan Library. 🙂

[Jerry]

California is a beautiful state. I had the pleasure of being station at Castle AFB for B-52 training. I also have family members in Lodi and San Jose. That being said, I really am saddened by the path the Golden State is on. From a $$$ boondoggle of a rapid rail system to the insanity of its failure to address its water system issues and all of the other policies. The path the politicos, R & D, of that state have placed their citizens on is what is Depressing.

The sad thing about what Caly is doing was summed up by my late father. He use to say “as California does today, the rest of the nation follows”. Buckle up folks, it’s going to be a very bumpy ride.