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I’m in Stainless Shock
I’m a newbee and have doing much research on Prevosts and finally sold my fiberglass coach and ready for my first bus. I was just to the point of confrming an offer along with a deposit when I learned all the XL II have a glue problem. I was also told any bus that is 10 – 12 years old will get no factory support for this abvious manufacture defect. Others have paid 30 to 50 thousand dollars for repairs and no guarantee the problem is fixed.
So now any bus I consider buying will have to have a 30 – 50K reduction in price to allow for future repairs. I was also told every bus has loose panels and it’s not if, but when the repair will be needed. With a class company like Prevost, I can’t imagine why they haven’t stepped up to take care of this defect and why hasn’t a recall or class action started to solve this problem. It may even be a safety issue, what if a panel falls off on the highway hurting someone.
Is this the best kept secret in the bus world? I had to really dig on google to start seeing some complaints from owners. Aren’t you owners concerned about the de-value done by this factory defect? What about the sale people, do you talk about the panels with your customers or just hope it never comes up.
Sorry if I stir up a hornets nest, but I just can’t understand the lack of factory support. I even went to Prevost website and nothing there about the panel adhesion issues.
Guess I’ll have to look for an H or move on to Newell.
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41 Replies
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Jon (all things Liberty) might be the best source to shed whatever light is available on this subject, afterall he chose to go from rivets to a newer XL. What I have been able to gather is this. All glued coachs including some H,s even have loose panels to some extent. You can get some indication of the extent by tapping on the panels and looking for signs of water leakage around windows and in the bays. A coach that has not been stored or parked with constant exposure to the elements has a better chance. A coach that has been repaired properly by Prevost ie: re-glued riveted w/cover strip, is likely ok. That being said, I’m still in a quandry about our next coach. leaning towards an H even though we prefer the XL. Let’s see what Jon weighs in with, but meanwhile We’ll hang on to our rivets a while longer.
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Interesting post, as I too am in the hunt for another bus and my preference is the XL2. The panels are a concern for me as well. If I buy one that hasn’t been done, chances are there will be loose panels and I have been told by several people in the know, they all have the adhesion issue, some worse than others.
This issue has a serious effect on the XL2 values and like Cory, my rivets are looking pretty good at the moment.
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I don’t know what type of response you’re looking for in the above posting about XLII side panels. The problem exists on some coaches and has been talked about before. Both X’s and delimitation on H models.
Does the problem exist ? Each coach should be looked at during your inspection process at all things related to the coach you want to buy. Series 60 engine, Allison trans, Kohler generator, respray of clear coat due to weather exposer …..All expensive repair items.
Several factors may lead to loose panels….. Poor maintenance, extreme exposer to high temp’s parked outside under cover but exposed sun daily on one side , high pressure washer nozzles getting in-between the cracks at 1500 lbs. plus pressure an inch away.
Sales competition between coaches, buying a H over a XL has been talked about.
Nothing perfect in the bus world, all things considered.
AL
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I went from a 1990 XL to a 2000 XLV (riveted) in 2006; I did not even consider an XLII primarily because of this issue.
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We who have XLII coaches do have to recognize that we could have the problem with delamination. It is no secret this issue has been around for quite a while and if a coach has the problem the owner has a very clear course of action.
The Prevost policy as I understand it is very specific. Take the coach to a Prevost Service Center for an evaluation of the extent of the problem. That is the first step.
The service center will communicate with Prevost Car the extent of the problem and Prevost Car will make a determination as to the repair and their participation in the cost of the repair. It is my understanding Prevost will offer no “good will” on coaches in excess of 10 years old. Probably would not be a bad idea for owners of 9.5 year old coaches to get an inspection.
Each case of delamination will be evaluated individually and all factors will considered by Prevost to determine the extent of their financial participation in the repairs.
I have no opinion or knowledge of what factors contribute to delamination, nor do I know what the costs are to repair a coach with the problem. I do know repairs to my coach prior to my purchase were extensive and expensive so my only recommendation is buyers and sellers have to reach an agreement on a coach during the time of sale. I would not consider a purchase without a Prevost inspection, and if repairs are needed an estimate of the cost and a decision on who bears the cost.
My antenna shot up big time when I read the phrase “class action” in the first post. The poster is not an owner so it seems inappropriate to use phrases like that but I understand the concern. It is my understanding Prevost has done a good job of standing behind the cost of repairs in the past, and I understand they have a fix that includes rivets so if I had the issue on my coach today I would find out what’s what before throwing around phrases that send people to attorneys.
If a current owner has a problem I think the starting point has to be the service center and then if the answer is not satisfactory try to negotiate better terms. I think Tom and I need to let the first post stand because we are not in favor of censorship or controlling opinions, but I would suggest only people with real exposure to the problem participate in stirring the pot. The worst thing that could happen is to get the lawyers involved so they get adversarial and then Prevost will plant its feet, which it has not done.
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Here are some added thoughts somewhat related. With rare exception a buyer that would like slides is going to have to buy an XLII or an H3. There are some rivet coaches with slides, but they were not Prevost slides. I have no clue whatsoever how well engineered non-Prevost slides are or if they are supported for service. I am just pointing out that in the vast majority of coaches with slides they will be on an XLII or H3 chassis.
There has been little or no discussion about delamination on H3 coaches and I think anyone lookng to avoid potential delamination issues can safely assume there will be none with the H3.
For those that want a Prevost with slides and they prefer stainless, their chance of getting a rivet coach is very slight. They are out there, but like motorhome conversions with bunks they are relatively few.
When considering a purchase of a coach remember due to privacy issues Prevost will not send out service history reports to anyone but the coach owner. So if you are considering the purchase of the coach and want to know if there have been skin problems your access to the history of the coach can only come through the coach owner. The owner has to request it and in fact the owner has to prove ownership via a title. I can appreciate how difficult that might make the purchase process, but a buyer should go into the purchase knowing the information relative to skin delamination.
I can say the slides change the entire character of a coach such that if an XLII has to be the coach, to me it is worth the risk, but all buyers have to do their homework. This is not something that buyers should do on line, at an auction or without an inspection. The costs can be staggering and an on-line purchase without an inspection can turn a purchase of a dream coach into a nightmare. BTW, I would stand behind that statement even if it applied to a rivet coach, just because there is way too much risk in a purchase of any coach without a detailed inspection.
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It would be nice to hear from folks that have actually been through this inspection process and would be willing to share the outcome.
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I had mine inspected at Prevost TN while I was still under warranty. I had gotten some paperwork from the Ft. Worth branch after my purchase indicating there were some panel issues that I did not know about. The dealer I bought the bus from in TX had it over to Prevost for an inspection of a bay door that did not operate correctly. Evidently while there they discoverd the panel issue.
The inspection in TN was very detailed and it was sent off to Prevost in Canada.
They (Prevost Canad) sent back an authorization and what to do to the guys in TN. I made an appointment and they kept the bus for about a week. My repairs involved edges that were lifting. The cause of this, acording to the people in TN, was improper cleaning either on the back of the panels, or the framwork they adhere to. The factory used a Sika product originally, and the TN guys used Loctite if memory serves correctly.
So far, so good. The TN service guys did an outstanding job as far as I can tell.
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I had a 2006 Royale XL11 that 5 panels come loose along the verticle seams (press along the edges and see if they move in ) had the sides reglued in 2008 factory “good will”. In 2010 had most of the panels coming loose again. This time the sides were completly removed replaced and the coach repainted …again factory “good will”. All of the work was done at the factory in Canada. The cost to Prevost was HUGE but they stood behind their product !
After owning many other “high end plastic coaches”, H included, we love the X. We have since sold the Royale XL11 coach, but have a enough faith in Prevost that we just took delivery of the first X3-45. Let the glued stainless roll! (and keep your fingers crossed)
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This is strictly a guess, but Jim, as a repeat owner is going to get repairs as needed with no cost to him. I think the ultimate concern is that subsequent owners of coaches do not have a clear picture of who stands behind the cost of repairs. Jim’s experience with 2 repairs two years apart signals that the problem is ongoing which may affect our pocket books in two ways.
The obvious impact is we owners may have to eat repair costs and still have no assurance the repairs are permanent. Notice I said “may”. Prevost may continue to support the coaches so don’t everyone get excited. A less obvious financial impact will be the marketplace will devalue the used coaches and at trade in time regardless of panel integrity our coaches are going to be worth less. As long as there is some question about skin delamination current owners of XLII coaches do have the right to be concerned.
I’m really happy about how clean and neat my coach looks when I sight down its length. Without rivets and the panel buckling that is apparent on rivet coaches my coach looks fantastic. But if I had an offer of a permanent fix that included rivets so I would never have to be concerned about panel delamination I would probably opt for that.
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Thanks for all the information, wish I would have found this great
website earlier. I’m glad Prevost is standing behind some of there
product with warranty. My search for a bus is 2001 to 2003 and thats
what I can afford and I have found that financing is not really
available and I’m fortunate enough to be able to pay cash.It sounds like the 2001 to 2003 falls into the no help from
Prevost and that will most likely take me out of the market for an XL
II unless I find one that has been repaired and will Prevost stand
behind that repair. I feel bad for the unsuspecting people that buy
there dream only to find they will face huge repairs and loss of
value because of a manufacturing defect.I just don’t understand why the people that spend 6 figures for a
used million plus vehicle will not step up and demand Prevost correct
this defect. The problem continues way past the 01-03 as later model
owners have got support as shown on this website. Maybe it all
depends on who you are and how much money you have spent in the past
for a Prevost. -
We bought our 2004 last year and had liberty check it out stamped astern before we took delivery. I brought up this issue to them and they say that they tested it with some sort of pressure test. In any case, liberty is known for being very good at taking care of their product, even if Pravo were not too.
All of the above typos are Siri’s fault. Just so you know.
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Karl, I will agree Liberty is excellent at supporting their customers, but keep in mind they are not responsible for the Prevost portion of our coaches. That doesn’t mean they don’t know and understand them, it is just pointed to so it is clear that in the event of skin issues we will be referred to Prevost.
TJones is apparently doing his homework, and does raise some valid points. I do think his best source for the answers he looks for will be Prevost.
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All I, myself, can say is this: It is not just getting the panels reglued…….Guess what goes on behind those panels after they have gotten water and who knows what else back there??? It isn’t a pretty picture to see!!
We too had this problem. Had Prevost document & inspect the delamination. Yep…..”you have delamination of panels”. Sorry, your 2001 is past the cut off for Prevost to help pay for it.
Ed will have more to say & photos regarding this matter later. Maybe tomorrow???
Sandy
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If you are wondering what is behind the panels, here is what was behind ours. Just remember that Prevost had already repaired these panels after delivery to Royale. It looks to me that they just squirted epoxy behind the panels. We did find over 80 holes that they used for their clamp fixture that were not filled, so I believe water intrusion may have caused some of the delamination.
Someone said that Prevost should be held responsble, well I think the broker-dealer is just as guilty. They show all those pictures of the engine, bays, galley, restroom, but nothing is said about the S/S panels. They all know about the delamination, and they kn ow how to tap the panels too. Just call one up and ask about the bus he is trying to sell you, are the panels are loose or have been fixed? I doubt that you can get a streight answer that you will gamble $ 40-50,000 on.
Ed
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