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What would you consider under powered on a 45′
What are your thoughts on a series 60 470hp on a 45′ bus?
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35 Replies
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Works well for us. A little more power would be nice in the mountains, but I say that about everything I drive!! We do okay…it ain’t a sports car. I certainly would not let it be a deal breaker. JMO…
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I agree with Mike, I think mine is rated 450 and a 5 speed. I’ve pulled my ’11 3/4 ton Dodge pickup all over the west and pass most semi’s on uphill pulls.
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I think that is what we have in our 45′ 1998 XLV chassis. I find the power to be adequate. We regularly pull a Chevy HHR.
It wouldn’t carry the front tires off the ground through an intersection under hard acceleration; which I wasn’t expecting it to nor did I want a coach that did.
It won’t run up the mountains in North Georgia, Tennesse, and Kentucky at 75mph without the speed dropping down; which I wasn’t expecting it would.
We’ve been back and forward between Wisconsin and Florida through the mountains three times now. Back and forth between Wisconsin and Vonore which is through the Tennesse/Kentucky mountains two or three times. Sure at WOT the speed drops back after a while on a steep grade, but the coach will eventually maintain a speed that usually faster than the slower semi’s going up the hill in the right lane. Usually I can figure out a way to get around that/those slow semi’s in the right lane unless the faster traffic is pretty heavy. Once in a while I have to fall in line behind that slow semi and crawl up the hill with him because I just can’t find a hole in the left lane big enough to get into without dramatically impacting the faster traffic in the left lane, which is a decision I made a long time ago NOT to do.
From time to time I pull the 10,000 to 11,000 pound race trailer. Obviously a much larger load than the HHR. I have learned (most of the time) to make sure when I cross an intersection from a stop, or need to merge into traffic, I have to use WOT until I get up to speed, especially if there is any grade change. Having to use WOT makes it important to make sure you’ll let the engine warm up adequately if you’ve been sitting overnight on a cold night at an Interstate rest stop. Never hammer a cold engine!
We have yet to go out West or to Alaska with the coach. I plan on taking the race car/trailer to Bonneville in the next year or so and I’m sure the trip through the Colorado Rockies will be interesting. But I expect we can live with it.
I presonally would not make a coach decision based on 475hp vs 550hp or 600hp. I made the decision on Prevost and I get from Prevost what Prevost gives me.
I’ll be interested in hearing from Mr. Mark who originally wanted to know if he could get a 600hp (or larger) CAT engine his coach and was considering a Newall which might offer the big horsepower CAT engine. As I recall, he wanted to run up the mountains without a drop in speed. (I hope I’ve paraphrased or characterized his posts correctly.)
George Prentice pulls a 30′ stacker trailer with a race car, pickup truck, golf cart, and a ton of equipment. I look forward to Geo’s observation on this subject.
BTW … its probably not horsepower you’re looking for, but torque and lots of it.
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works fine for us…. we have been all over the west …. lowest gear 4th… heading into lake tahoe … long pull on state road 50
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The 470 hp S60 work fine for us too. It helps to keep RPMs up and switch to “Mode” on the Allison in the mountains.
Gerald
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Hello Dick and Cathie,
Dick said: “I’ll be interested in hearing from Mr. Mark who originally wanted to know if he could get a 600hp (or larger) CAT engine his coach and was considering a Newall which might offer the big horsepower CAT engine. As I recall, he wanted to run up the mountains without a drop in speed. (I hope I’ve paraphrased or characterized his posts correctly.)”
Well, so you remember my ‘engine size upgrade’ post, LOL! That did take on a life of it’s own!
It was a Cummins 600 hp Newell that I was comparing. CAT stopped OTR engines in 2007 or 2008. I was the greenest greenhorn that you could imagine. Jon and Tom set me straight. :o)
As you guys all know, it’s about weight to horsepower ratio and torque. We weigh 55,500 lbs. with 500 hp and 1,750 lb. ft. torque. I’m happy with our pulling power and speed up hills. Our previous 425 hp Cummins with 1,200 lb. ft. of torque left me underwelmed at our weight at 40,000 lbs.
As they say, more power equals more heat and more fuel usage. We have the perfect balance. We are averaging a good 6.5 mpg and can inch it up to 7 mpg on long flat runs. I drive about 60 mph when I can. I will run 65 when the speed limit is 75 as not to impede traffic too much.
Safe travels,
Mark
On Edit: I first listed our torque at 1,650 then I looked it up on the Volvo site and it says 1,850 for the 500 hp D13 but I think I read where ours is 1,750 (away from the coach at the moment).
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HP discussions are on every web site for powered vehicles.
When I used to frequent aviation sites not a month or even a week went by without someone wanting more HP. We now see 700 HP Jeep Grand Cherokees, apparently so we can get groceries a little faster. Some other coach brands are touting 600 plus HP and I think some of our members have condiered and maybe are using a device to increase HP.
The question is how much do you want to spend?
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Thanks for everyones replies.
It is good to know that the 470hp is strong enough to push a 45′ in most cases. I wanted to know if the bus would be going backwards on a long incline. Like Mark said, I do not want to be “underwelmed” . Sounds like most everyone is happy. I don’t want 600hp if it is not needed, on the other hand if 470hp was not enough I would want a bit more. Seems like most buses have 500+.
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Would it not be a interesting experiment to do like the railroad locamotives do use electric motors to power the drive axle of the Coach and diesel engines to power the electric motors. What a Coach that might be? Michael
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Ron:
I think some of the issue should rest on how you’re going to use your coach. Are you going to have the $6,000 Prevost upgrade to the engine cradle so you can pull a 20,000# trailer with a 2,000# tongue weight (or whatever it is) to pull a really heavy, very tall trailer up and down the mountains all the time with extremely tight time schedules?
I think the truckers in the group will tell us that there are lots of semi’s out on the highway with less than the horsepower and torque we have in our coaches pulling 80,000# loads up and down the mountains on a regular basis, albeit going up the steep hills in the right lane at 30mph.
I think Jon mentioned “heat”. Anytime you increase horsepower and torque and then USE that additional hp and ft-lbs, the drive train will generate additional amounts of heat, lots of it. Not only will it be heat from the engine, but the transmission and the differential will generate a ton of heat as you use that hp and ft-lbs to run up the mountains faster. Again, the guys who have driven semi’s with the 600-700hp motors pulling a 80,000# up the mountains at 65mph will probably tell us that the readings on the differential temp gauges and the trans temp gauges go up.
I hope the coaches with the 600hp motors have had their cooling systems (engine, trans, differential) properly engineered to get ride of the heat that will be generated on a long, steep climb in the mountains.
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D
Dick and Kathy, Jon
Good points.
We will be traveling at leasure pace. We will not be in a big hurry for anything. We will have the rest of our lives to see this great country. We will have a small toad of some kind. We have not decided on that part yet but it will not be big.
Ron
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Ron: I can just tell you’ll be sitting so proud and tall in the pilot’s seat and Jane next to you will not be able to believe she’e riding in the finest motorcoach in the world for the first ten or fifteen thousand miles.
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I’ve mentioned this before but this weekend the point was made clear again.
Immediately south of the KY / TN border on I-75 is a long hill we’ve called Jellico Mountain. It is steep enough to require a running start in the 5th gear and if the planets line up I can climb it in 5th. I usually can run it between 55 and 60. Below 55 I end up in 4th.
As usual the trucks ahead of me were bogging down by the time they were a 1/2 mile into the climb. I was towing the Hummer and I had the OTR running, but I was doing real well and as I neared the last of the trucks in line I stepped into the passing lane doing about 15 or 20 MPH better speed. But guess what? One of the cars that was sitting between a couple of trucks doing their speed stepped into the passing lane and then apparently forgot what the long pedal was for. By the time his brain kicked in and he started to accelerate my momentum was gone and I was now hung out in the fast lane because the slow lane was bottled up.
I could have had 2000 HP and it would have made little difference unless I wanted to drive over the damn Subaru.
I was able to accelerate and by the top I was back to my cruise control speed but for those that think the HP helps on hills the one thing to realize is more often than not you have little or no control of your speed up hills. It seems at least one trucker on every hill ends up blocking the fast lane because he is going 1 MPH faster than the ones in the slow lane. This time it was a car driver that messed up things.
And if you get a HP increase make certain you spend the time and money to increase the cooling system ability to reject heat because you generate a lot of heat making HP and when you need the HP the most the engine control system is going to start derating the engine in response to the higher temps you will generate. I have NEVER read of a company that reprograms the ECM or offers a device to increase HP offer additional cooling to go along with it. Prevost literally spends millions getting their cooling system certified by the engine manufacturer so the engine is protected and so the engine manufacturer will stand behind the warranty.
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Jon
Thanks for that info. I do not plan to alter the engine in what ever I get. If it aint broke…I am not going to try to break it.
Ron
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Ron and Jane,
You didn’t mention the year of the coach in question but I’m thinking it may not have slides. You will have a weight savings there and actually might have more ‘pushing’ power than we do (and ours is good).
I don’t know which rear-end we have but we are brisk on start off, much better than our previous coach weighing 40,000 lbs.
MM.
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