[Archived]

Welcome to the form lonestarace! you
have found the right place to learn about Prevost conversions. Everyone here
will most assuredly have differing but insightful opinions as to which converter
is the best, or worst! But if you read carefully, your conclusion(s) will be
rewarding, no doubt! Soon, you will hear from Jon and Tom, pay close attention to
what they say. I’ve followed their advise on this form and others for years now and learned
enough to confidently go out and purchase my 98 Liberty. You are asking a lot
of good questions right from the start, so I’m sure that you’ll have few problems with the purchase
process. My first suggestion would be buy
a bus with OTR air, its the best way to travel especially in the southwest during the summer! If you want a wood interior, then probably the Royale would be the best bet, but they have roof air (dang the start of compromising!).
These machines really are all about the “balance of compromise”. But what ever you do, make
sure you do a complete PDI (pre-delivery inspection) before you buy anything! Jon has posted an article
on this site with a check list and it’s a great place to start when you are starting to look at
coaches.

Good luck with your purchase!

Fred

[Bob]

Lonestarace…….There is not a lot of special expertise or knowledge required to buy a Prevost conversion, and the process is actually fairly simple if you know what you want and you know yourself.

You may already have the answers to a lot of your questions at your fingertips. The two biggest questions and answers have to be yours alone to answer. How much are you prepared to spend (purchase price plus any needed repairs or upgrades), and do you intend to be a long term owner or are you planning to trade within a relatively short time? Those two questions and their answers will lead to the best answers to your posted questions.

If you have a specific budget it narrows the focus. To use extremes as an example if you expect your budget to be at the low end but will not settle for anything but a Series 60, you are likely to focus on very early Series 60 coaches, most likely not in the best condition, converted by a company that might be out of business. If your budget is towards the high side for the model year range you cited you will have the entire range of rivet coaches available to you and you can focus on the best of the best. With all of the various internet listings of Prevost conversions for sale, including this site, ebay, the various RV listings, etc an evening on the computer will enable you to learn the price range for the model years you stated. Further study of coaches listed on the internet will help you understand the price range of specific conversions.

Then you have to decide if you are apt to trade soon, and if the answer is yes you can expect to look for the absolute best bargains because you want to minimize the impact of depreciation. If you tend to keep your coach for a long time you still face depreciation, but it becomes less important than getting as much as you want in a coach with less compromise.

If there is a book for coach prices I don’t know of one. The market is so small and NOBODY knows what any coach is really worth except the buyer and seller that no accurate price summary exists. The pricing is determined by so many different factors it always boils down to what a seller will accept and what a buyer will spend. There are some predictable factors that influence price. A coach in good condition with complete service records and a history of routine service will bring more than a coach that has issues and no provable service history. Some conversions are always going to cost more than some others because the converter is supporting the coach or the coach was very well equipped or both.

For financing start here http://www.newcoast.com/ Mike Lynch can answer all of your questions.

For the model years you are suggesting the engine is likely to be the 12.7 liter. Probably 470 HP. Some might be 14 up to 515 HP. I have had a 475HP 8V92, a 470 HP Series 60 and now a 515 14 Series 60 and I can tell you there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference in their preformance. I can say if you want the absolute most fuel efficient look for the lightest coach with the 12.7 engine which puts it around a 96 to a 98. Mileage will run around 7 to 8 MPG.

If you are looking for a wood interior not just a laminate with wood grain, you have limited yourself to a Royale. If you insist on a coach with the Prevost over the road air you are almost required to buy a Liberty.

There will be a lot of controversy over this comment, but if you are looking for the absolute best set up for air conditioning in the southwest don’t even consider a coach without the Prevost Over the Road Air. That system has well in excess of 80,000 BTU of cooling capacity. To equal that you would need a coach with 5 or 6 roof or Cruiseair units. Anticipate the response from folks who will tell you their converter installed “over the road” system does just fine. You will have to sort out what you think is best.

For heat in below freezing conditions coaches have Aquahot or Webasto heat to supplement the Prevost heat used when driving. Both Websto and Aquahot use a Webasto diesel fired burner, with BTU ranging from 40,000 to 80,000 depending on the conversion. Usually coaches have electric toe space heater(s) to take the chill off, but not to cope with single digit OAT’s.

All of the model designations you listed are just designations for the different Prevost chassis. In simple terms an XL series has the stainless skins. the XL is a 40 foot, the XLV is a 45 foot, both with rivetted skins. The XLII has bonded skins, and began with chassis model year 2000, usually titled as a 2001. The H3 series has composite skins and started as a 40 / 41 foot coach and later a 45.

I think the Prevost web site has information on the wheelbases, but the turn radius is affected by more than just the wheelbase. A 40 foot coach with a solid axle is going to have a turn radius similar to a 45 foot coach with IFS. I have had them all and can say the turn radius has zero influence on what coach I would want.

After you have answered the two questions I cited above the third thing you have to do is determine your wants and needs. As an example if I were to define my perfect coach it would have OTR, a private toilet (as opposed to an open plan), both of those being absolute needs, followed by a CruiseAirs, dinette, long range fuel, closet carousel, and stacked W/D. By creating your list you can elminate a lot of coaches and as you hone in on those that meet your needs you become very astute.

[John]

[Archived]

[Archived]

Welcome to the site Don. You will get all kinds of opinions here
on the various conversions and it all boils down to personal
preference. Jon covered it well, so I’ll just add one comment about
HVAC.

I’m about to be in my 5th bus and this will be my first with OTR.
I have had both roof airs and cruiesairs, my preference out of the
two would be roof airs if no OTR. The roof airs are a little noisier,
but can be replaced relatively cheap. Being on top of the bus is a
plus in the summer when your setting around under the awning and they
work well while traveling and running the gen.

The cruiseairs are quieter, but put out a lot of head under the
bus in the summer if your setting under the awning. The other
downside is, they will shut down while traveling in hot temps at a
time when you need them the most. The newer ones may be better, all
of mine were XL’s. They are also expensive to repair and you have to
find a place that knows what they are doing with experience. Keep in
mind, if you have OTR and cruiesairs, you won’t be running them while
traveling and the shut down problem won’t be a factor.

Most Liberty’s have OTR and you will find some
Vantare/Featherlites as well.

[Kenneth]

Let me really stir the pot here. Let’s pretend you will not buy a coach with OTR. You are going to rely on CruiseAirs which are split systems with the condenser in the belly of the bus and the evaporators in the living area, or you are going to have roof airs which as the name implies are complete AC units located on the roof.

In either case you will have to run the Cruise Airs or roof airs while going down the road. As Tom explains you may not get good performance from CruiseAirs because the air going into the condensing unit is the heated air radiating off the highway. If it is hot enough performance is going to be compromised or non existent. Understand that limitation.

If you have roof airs they are not adversely impacted by the heated air radiating from the highway but are up on the roof in clean cooler air.

But how do you run them if you do not have OTR? Most conversions provide a means of powering them through the inverters. You can run one, or maybe even two while driving. But typically a bus alternator is 270 amps at 24 volts. Keep in mind if you need to run AC units through the inverter you are likely using half of the alternator capacity just to run the AC units. The rest is available for maintaining the batteries, running the refrigerator, making coffee, etc.

So if I had a bus without OTR I would just run the generator while driving and turn on every AC in the house. Let them cycle. You can easily keep a coach cool, but if it gets warm inside or hot it is much more difficult getting it comfortable. If you do not get a coach with OTR make sure it has at least four AC units if the coach is a 45 footer. Two are likely to do OK, but three will do better and the 4th covers you if it is exceptionally hot or one of the others has a problem. Like your planes, think redundancy. Not if it will break, but when it breaks.

[Corey]

Don, Lisa, & Lex

We happen to live over in Boerne. For what it’s worth (2 cents, maybe), I would not purchase a coach without OTR. Not for south, central, or west Texas, or points west. Roof airs or Cruise-Airs while parked, but not for traveling in the summer. If you must forego OTR, then at least four roof airs, in my opinion, and as Jon says. We have a 35′ Bluebird FC as well, and the 3 roof airs are just adequate when the temperature rises above 94 or so. If you are traveling west and get into Death Valley type areas or near the Mexican border, or anywhere near Indio or Joshua Tree NP, you will be glad you have OTR and no lingering doubts or regrets. This was, for us, one of the reasons for going to the ‘ultimate class’.

Running the generator would no longer be necessary unless you stop for long periods, and want to shut the engine off. If you return to a coach that has been closed up for hours w/o the A/Cs on, and the inside temp is enough to bake bread, the OTR will easily cool the coach down in short order. You will rarely, if ever, have to use max OTR cooling. Others may argue about the number of roof-airs for this region of the country, but if you have Cruise-Airs, get the max: four. In my/our view, OTR for this region of the country is essentially mandatory.

Another reason for OTR, for me, is traveling in really cold northern USA conditions, and/or at altitude; I-40 near Flagstaff, for instance. Heat strips in roof-airs, for me, don’t do it. If you would like to see what a Prevost OTR looks like, inside, outside, and underneath, and how it performs, you can contact me and take a look at ours. If you find that you are unconvinced, I will refund your two cents.

[Archived]

This issue of Prevost bus air/cruise airs vs ducted roof tops has been argued in previous threads, but I’ll throw my 3 cents in anyway. Spent more than a month West and Southwest this past year (temps 94-105) in a 45′ XLV with 3 ducted roof tops plus CC otr. No problems. Moving otr on, above 96, 1 roof on invert. 30 min. before stopping, gen on, other 2. Heat pumps work fine to 35 deg, wabasto below that. Never been uncomfortable and we can keep coach whatever temp we desire. The normal place for the coach is SW florida, not exactly a temperate climate either. The little extra noise of the roof tops is a small price to pay compared to the cost of repair and maintainance on cruise airs, especially on an older coach. I do agree that a coach with cruise airs and no Prevost bus air would be next to worthless. Anyone have some more pennies?

[glen]

I have Country Coach OTR air and Prevost dash air and have never been uncomfortably warm, even in FL. CC OTR air doesn’t take up a storage bay like Prevost’s. Yes, Prevost OTR air has more BTUs of cooling, as it should. Prevost OTR air is meant to cool a coach with full windows and 55 passengers radiating 98.6 degrees.

I wouldn’t be too concerned about buying a coach converted by a company that’s now out of business. Most of the conversion is done with brand name products. You are looking at a 15 year old coach, even those still in business may have limited support for anything they did unique. Although I hope it doesn’t happen any remaining converter may close their doors tomorrow.

I would focus on how well the coach appears to have been maintained and how servicable the converter planned the conversion. I’ve seen house batteries installed in such a way that it’s almost impossible to service them.

I really like what Country Coach did on my 99.

[Archived]

You know the source: The guys here know the quality coaches out there for sale. I’m a home builder and take hand me downs. I look for tire age–not looks of tread but date codes.last four = week and year of mfg. Service records. Carfax has them even on the last coach I purchased. Batt ? how old? ck dates can cost you thousands. Start bus cold and see how fast it airs up and note air sounds. Drop front bumper and look in compartment. Probably cruise air there-should be clean-often missed by top shiners. Try everything no matter how hot or cold it is!!!!! Don’t be high pressured. It is a buyers market now. Drive it . stop it. spend the night in it. start it again. feels good buy it. It’s you $. It will outlast your Sticks and Staples. This from one that has only to envy the factory built coaches. Bob

[Gerald]

This is what i have live in fl have traveled all around the west and south keeps bus cool even when hot , but i run generator i have the double one no noise at all ducted. http://www.flagshipmarine.com/offroof.html has been no problums at all just change filter every month or so get at walmart. I run it on shore power when parked at my home keep it set at 78 degrees keeps bus fresh and dry. Mine is the 27000 btu. one that is over two tons of cooling and heat. Also have dash a/c. But it is aways cool as a cuncumber I don’t know if Vantare used thies a lot but im glad i have it.

[Archived]

No surprise there is polarization between those who have or agree OTR is the way to go, and those who do not have it.

What any buyer has to do is first define what environmental conditions make them comfortable. I have an aunt and uncle who don’t even think about air conditioning until the house gets over 85 degrees. By then I am on the floor gasping for air. My idea of comfort is 70 and below. I know of folks who would be wearing a snowmobile suit if they had to endure those temps.

The reason there are so many different conversions and different environmental systems is because not everyone thinks alike. What a buyer has to do is balance his needs with the compromises each conversion requires. A lot of the decision can be based on facts, and some based on how the coach is used, and some influenced by the coaches that are available. It is important to try to separate some of the myths from reality. Everyone can agree OTR will cool any coach on the hottest day. Everyone can agree if the coach does not have OTR it needs to have roof airs because Cruise Airs cannot be relied upon when the highway is radiating excessively hot air.

Depending on the model year of the coach OTR will have performance somewhere between 80,000 to 105,000 BTU. Depending on the model roof or Cruise Airs are going to have 13,000 to 15,000 and if “packaged units” are used the output is likely to be around 27,000 BTU. I have never seen any rating on the output on converter installed AC “OTR” systems or the Prevost dirvers air. Maybe someone can post that. With the facts regarding cooling capacity a buyer can make some informed decisions.

There have been discussions in the past about how each affects engine performance or MPG. In the simplest of terms and ignoring the modest differences in efficiency energy is energy is energy. The engine driven AC compressors will impact mileage and HP. There is no doubt a six cylinder OTR engine driven compressor is going to use some HP and fuel. But assuming all coaches are kept at the same temperatures the energy that is taken from the engine to either direct drive a compressor, or run an AC unit through the alternator through the converters is going to be roughly the same. If you do not want to load the engine, such as to climb a mountain, run the house AC units off the generator.

OTR does use bay space. But it does not use an entire bay. It uses about 1/4 of a bay on each side or about 1/2 of a bay. If you are full timing and tend to stay in an RV park most of the time OTR makes no sense because bay space might be important. But if you do not full time and bay space is not critical, or if you spend a lot of time on the road that space is probably not as important. Cruise Airs take up bay space. Usually behind the bumper and in the center of the coach in the second bay. Roof airs do not use any storage space. The downside to roof air placement is that roof penetrations can leak. Any roof penetration, from antennas to vents to AC units has to be well sealed and on occasion those seals have to be repaired or serviced.

Roof air units are inexpensive. But they are also less durable than Cruise Airs. I have no data base to prove that other than seeing how each is built, and personal experience in which over 23 years I had to replace one Cruise Air that failed. It was 16 years old.

Cruise air units in operation are quieter than roof airs. If noise bothers a buyer that has to be considered. Bottom line is that only the buyer can evaluate the facts and decide what environmental systems he wants. I am of the school of thought that says for what I spent on a coach, I am not going to be less comfortable in my coach than I am in my pickup truck. I want to be warm or cool and I don’t want to compromise.

I might represent the far end of the issue however because Tom has voiced his complaints about how cool my coach is. He apparently is comfortable if temperatures are above 70.

[glen]

How cool is Jon’s coach? We had a meeting in Indy in Jon’s coach, it was a pleasent 96 outside and you could hang swinging beef inside. He was only running 2 cruiseairs, Di had on a snowmobile suit and Jon boy was in a PC T-shirt and speedo’s. The meeting went well, for me covered in a nice Liberty quilt and when it was time to leave, I opened the door and my glasses went straight to IFR conditions.

The later Liberty’s must have the Binford 3000 turbo cruiseair upgrades.

[Archived]

Boys and girls……….don’t believe Tom. He might be stretching it a little. Di did not have her snowmobile suit with her. She was outside thawing out.

But he does remind me of something not mentioned. The coach was our present coach and even though our 97 Liberty non slide coach had less volume to keep warm or cool it was nowhere near as efficient as our current Liberty. I suspect the thermopane windows make a huge difference. On the 97 and the 87 before it the windows were either hot or cold depending on OAT. The current coach may have the same heating or cooling capability but no longer do I feel the cold or heat on the window glass.

[gary]

Wecome Folks,

Kinda new to all this Prevost stuff myself. Couldn’t live without OTR air in my bus. Will freeze you out on the hottest day. Have to mix heat to stay comfortable (wifey complains) Bought converted 1991 XL with 51,000 miles on that had been climate controlled garaged for 8 years for $57,000 bucks. Genset (15kw Kubota had 25 hours) Looked like it rolled off showroom floor. We have already wrapped up around another $20,000 in it, which is easy to do. Replaced everything inside electrical, tires, batteries , water pumps, everything charged. (3 cruise airs) Cruise airs do the job but spent a lot of time last summer on the beach (Gulf Coast) and there were straining to keep up at 105 degrees. If you find a older coach don’t be afraid on it. Just got mine out yesterday on service from Prevost Ft Worth for air problems. On our year model had everything to fix. Even did a recall that had been set in 1996 for brake system. Once again, Welcome and good luck.