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Update ““THE COST OF PREVOST OWNERSHIPâ€
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Yep, I’m embarrassed to say how old the ones were that I replaced…………..let’s just say they were well beyond 5 years…….
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For some reason our bus has six 4Ds. I think that’s what Kirby said. Does Lifeline have those? Linda
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There are some things on our coaches we can stretch because the downside is not dangerous or financially risky.
But there are two things as owners we really need to think about not not pushing the limits. The obvious one is tires. Just because a tire looks good when it ages does not mean it continues to be safe. They age at which it has the potential to be unsafe is somewhere around 5 to 7 years. So many factors influence that it appears the decision of when to replace lies with the owner, but somewhere within that age range the tires have outlived their usefulness according to the people that design and build them.You do need to consider the cost of replacement in your budget.
As an owner you can greatly improve the lifespan of your tires by caring for them such as avoiding the use of tire dressings, never allowing the tire pressures to get low and exercising them often. Since low pressures can kill a tire I would urge the use of a tire pressure monitoring system because a pre-trip inspection is not going to help you if you pick up a nail shortly after you start driving and before the next rest stop your tirepressure is dangeously low.
The second item that relates to cost is batteries. House batteries are expensive, but stretching their life to an extent is possible by keeping them charged according to the manufacturer’s requirements. Deep discharges will shorten their life. But even if well maintained pushing their usefull life can get expensive. Adding a sixth year to a set of five year old batteries may not only be possible, and it will save some dollars, but it has risks.
There have been far too many threads in which owners have experienced unusual electrical system problems to the point where they have even sent in inverters to be rebuilt or even bought new inverters, only to find out a battery has failed and it was masking its failure by looking an acting like the problems were caused by inverters or other electrical system issues.
If you do opt to stretch the limits of you components on the coach that is your choice, but when you do try to understand there are risks that will offset the rewards of getting another year or two of life.
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Jon, a couple things… How does tire dressing harm the tires, I never heard that before.
Other ther than someone thinking there may be an inverter problem. Is there any other systems problem that can come from a bad battery? I ask because if a car a battery goes bad the car won’t start but no harm is done to the car. Is this not true of house batteries? And do you always have all batteries changed out?
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Dressings chemically pull the oils out of the rubber causing premature aging. Tires like airstreams never came from their factories glistening. They’re a matte finish surface. Two things we never do. One, let a vendor smear goo on our tires. Besides pulling oils out of rubber compounds, it gets slinged around by centrifical force driving. Never let anyone on your roof with a power sprayer. They have a tendency to blow off your caulking exposing areas to rainwater leaks.
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Linda,
Yes, my price on 4D auto post is 488.75 and blade post are 494.50 each plus shipping.
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HJ,
It is not that bad batteries damage anything as much as they show as a problem with a lot of our components besides the inverters. They make the battery displays read so wrong we think they are bad, they can make us think we have an equalizer issue. There are long threads on the forum in which an owner posted a strange problem and a number of us responded immediately to separate and test the batteries.
The owner with the problem was sure it was elsewhere because the batteries were almost new or they had been checked or whatever, but after many posts and days it finally turns out one or more batteries had gone bad and a new set cured the problem, sometimes after serious money was spent by an owner that was unaware of how problems get masked.
More than one owner has replaced inverters presumed to be bad when the real problem was one or more of the batteries in a set.
This applies to house or chassis batteries.
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But, but Jon – – – I like shiney tires!!
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I got two responses when I pressed about tire dressing knowing some among us trowel the stuff on for the shine.
The first was a serious answer and as it says in the information provided keep them clean with soap and water. The second response was a big grin and the comment they like to see folks use tire dressing because they like to sell tire. Jim had the correct response.
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H.J.: Some observations and comments.
First where is home base for you?
Where do you get the coach worked on? After we first started shopping for a Prevost I was concerned about where to take it for service. Knowing a Prevost had a Detroit Diesel engine, I discovered that Instate Power Systems (a Detroit Diesel/Allison Transmission authorized repair shop) had a shop in Butler, Wisconsin about 30 minutes away from our house. I called them, asked for the service manager, explained we were about to buy a DD powered Prevost, and wondered if they had experience with them. The service manager told me they worked on Prevost and MCI seated coaches all the time, once in a while a motorhome conversion, and periodically an entertainer coach. Without me asking, he mentioned that they would be limited on what they could do on the converter installed stuff on the coach … but “the shell” was something they had a pretty good handle on. Again without me asking he offered that they should be able to “service” the on-board generator as well.
To date … after almost three years of Prevost ownership I have yet to visit them.
Fortunately we discovered Jeff Rowe at ETLC outside of Knoxville, TN. We’ve made three trips in Florida in January so Jeff isn’t too far out of our way. My plan is to once a year have the coach in Jeff’s shop for service.
If I need something in an emergency or for some reason Jeff is in the wrong direction or too far away … my plan is to (1) take the coach to an authorized DD/Allison shop (probably with a reference from this Forum) or (2) take the coach to a seated coach company operating Prevosts. From what I’m told, most of the large operators have experienced mechanics on staff and take in outside work.
After four or more years of reading the posts on this Forum, I’ve read of Prevost owners who have had emergencies on the road and have had experiences ranging from exceptional to terrible with whereever they got the coach to or whoever came to them on the road. So that is a risk. I recall one Prevost owner taking his coach to a dumpy looking place in the middle of nowhere and was very apprehensive … but the guy who owned the place was a very good coach mechanic and got him on his way quickly and cheaply. Its a risk and if something happens on the road I plan on relying on the Forum for advice, counsel, and many shoulders to cry on.
Preventative maintainance. It took me a while to completely comprehend something that Jeff Rowe said to me a number of times: “Its something that could ruin a trip.” We had a 1999 Amana refrigerator that started to have problems. Maybe I could have fixed it, but how long is a 15 year old refrigerator gonna last? Until I’m a thousand miles from home traveling between two important events with $400 of food in the thing? Before you try to stretch something … think how it would impact a trip if it failed? If I have three or four Cruise-Airs and I’m in Florida in the winter or Canada/Alaska in the summer time and one is having a problem … I might not be so excited to immediately address it. But a failed refrigerator, microwave, water pump, and probably a water heater failing could really screw things up if you don’t discover it at East Tennessee Luxury RV Resort near Vonore, TN.
Your budget. You should be able to find a nice coach for $130,000 and based on what you’ve indicated should still have some left in reserve for “zero out”. We did pretty much the same thing three years ago; granted I think the market has improved for Prevosts of late 90’s vintage. Just keep in mind what a number of Forum members have said … “You oftentimes get what you pay for.” Some of the coaches you think are “high priced” at a dealer likely have some of the “zero out” work already done and the cost of that imbedded in the price and/or have a little room in those prices for a trade or horse trading.
What’s the difference is you buy a coach for $130K from a private with aged out tires and batteries as well as limited maintenance records and plan on spending $25K for tires, batteries, and a good starter zero out OR you find a similar coach for $155K to $160K that has documented new tires, new batteries, fresh fluids, all new belts and hoses, new brake cans, new air bags, etc.
Good luck with your search!
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The one thing I do not see here is a discussion for a coach that has some age on it and that would refer to its safety and ride. Think on the steering mechanism… the control arm bushings and boots…. steering rods, bushings and connections… these are very important to be examined while on a lift. The upper control arms are about $500 each and the lower arms are a touch over $800 each. The installation however is a small number… about a six hour task for removal and replacement of all four if on a lift providing access.
The issue is whether from mileage or aging, these rubber parts will need replacing if they have not already been replaced. So… I recommend that these potential expenses be kept in mind. There is no substitute for safety…
And by the way, if the boots are worn on the control arms, the control arms basically have to be replaced because the bushing that goes in the outside boot has to be replaced with a tool that cost $2000 and there isn’t a Prevost branch that has the tool any longer…..therefore…. Prevost just replaces the entire control arm… they do not sell the part… (let me correct that…they may sell you the part but you will return it)
Been there and recently done that… and incidentally…unbelieveable results…
The coach then should be re-aligned (about $225) for all three axles.
Hope this helps the discussion.
Pres
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Thanks Dick, that was teriffic and I thank you for it! One quick question about batteries? If you check them and one is bad do you replace all six or just the one? -
The one thing I do not see here is a discussion for a coach that has some age on it and that would refer to its safety and ride. Think on the steering mechanism… the control arm bushings and boots…. steering rods, bushings and connections… these are very important to be examined while on a lift. The upper control arms are about $500 each and the lower arms are a touch over $800 each. The installation however is a small number… about a six hour task for removal and replacement of all four if on a lift providing access.
The issue is whether from mileage or aging…. these rubber parts will need replacing if they have not already been replaced. So… I recommend that these potential expenses be kept in mind. There is no substitute for safety…
And by the way, if the boots are worn on the control arms, the control arms basically have to be replaced because the bushing that goes in the outside boot has to be replaced with a tool that cost $2000 and there isn’t a Prevost branch that has the tool any longer…..therefore…. Prevost just replaces the entire control arm… they do not sell the part… (let me correct that…they may sell you the part but you will return it)
Been there and recently done that… and incidentally…unbelieveable results…
The air bags if not on sale are $227 a piece. …plus installation
The coach then should be re-aligned (about $225) for all three axles.
Hope this helps the discussion.
Pres
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The Pres makes a good point, as usual. On our first January trip to ETLC the late Peter Campbell was helping Jeff and the Eagle Scouts work on coaches. I mentioned to him that the coach seemed to wander and I thought maybe the steering box needed to be tighted up. He said, “NO! NO! NO! Don’t touch the steering box. Take the coach to Prevost and get a three axle alignment.” To make a somewhat long story that I’ve chronicled elsewhere short … he was 100% right. The tech had new tie rods laid out before he drive the coach into the bay to set it up for the alignment. Told me most of the time they need replacing when someone comes in for an allignment. Sure enough, there was play in the tie rods. They got replaced first. During the alignment he discovered that the drive axle was WAY out of spec. The coach drove like a dream after that … no more wandering from shoulder to should as I chased it with the wheel. Price was $650 or $675. I stood by the coach during the entire process and it is a lengthy deliberate process.
My experience has been with only lead acid chassis batteries. When I had a chassis battery go bad after five months, I replaced only that battery. I’ve read that if the batteries are older and one fails, that all the batteries should be replaced. Where the cut of is, I don’t know. If I have a chassis battery fail at four years, I’m replacing all the batteries.
Tom might have some insight into how to deal with the premature failure of an AGM coach battery a year or two or three before the often expected life of five years.
H.J. … can you share your home base with us? That will help us put our comments, advice, counsel, guesses, estimates, and outright fabrications in better context for you.
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It has to be special circumstances that are not widely known for only a single battery of a set to be replaced.
Tom who can get into more detail goes so far as to want brand new batteries to even have the same date code and I have never seen anything written by experts to suggest if a battery has a premature failure and the others are quite new that it is OK to just replace one.
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