[Archived]

I use the AF1 braking system. It provides vacum so that the power brakes work the same or at least similar to the way they do when the engine is running. I suspect M&G’s system works the same.

[Corey]

Greg,

You are doing it right and have the system that works as well as if the engine is running.

However not all brake systems work as well as the M&G or AF-1. Note the difference in brake force required to slow or stop a power assisted brake with the engine running compared to when the engine is not running. Supplemental brake systems need the force required to be effective without assist from the toad engine running. And larger vehicles, such as the H2 Hummer and the Dodge Ram 2500 use the power steering pump for hydraulic assist in lieu of vacuum boost and the force required to operate those brakes is substantial.

But everyone has to recognize even without a toad the stopping distances on our coaches are excessive compared to the average car. It is not unusual for our buses to require at least 2 X the stopping distance of a car so amber lights which are set for car stopping distances are a real challenge for us with or without the toad. Adding to the problem is when cars change lanes and pull in front of us too close, and then hit the brakes.

[Archived]

I’m on my 3rd M&G and have tested the system each time I installed it on a toad to make sure it’s working. I have about 25′ of tubing rigged up so I can park the toad beside the rear of the bus and then while pushing the toad, have someone touch the bus brakes and it works. You do have to make sure the installation was correct and proper adjustment of the rod that actuates the vacuum booster was done. Of course there is no way to tell if the brakes are being applied proportional when towing, but assume it does.

I doubt my test method would work for you Greg, probably can’t push an Excursion!:)

[Dave]

I was thinking that when you push the brakes without the engine running it is really a hard push, but it works. With the engine running it is an easy push, so I was wondering if you have the same braking power with and without the engine running.

[Archived]

With M&G and AF-1 they are providing “power” braking without the engine running.

Any other system that just pushes on the brake pedal does not have power brake assist and as you note it takes a considerable push on the brakes to be effective.

The effort is likely proportional to the size of the toad.

The only way to really determine how effective a braking system works is to measure the stopping distance from a given speed such as 60 MPH with the toad brake system engaged, disengaged, and with the engine of the toad running to get the power assist with the brake system engaged.

One thing we all need to recognize is our coach brakes are never going to give us the same stopping distances as the average car or pickup truck. The more weight we try to stop, the greater the stopping distance. How many among us do a brake check prior to a trip? How many among us have had a leaking hub seal that has resulted in oil coated brakes? How many of us drive our coach like we drive our cars at the same speeds and using the same spacing between us and the car ahead?

[Archived]

I have had a CDL for 30 years drive 60000 miles a year haul horse every one of those miles brake checks are very important oil on brakes bad news when stopping with horses u have to start smooth and stop smooth or u my knock one down I had peterbilts for all these miles and horse trailer What I think is crazy give somebody a motorhome that weight is 50000 pounds that has not drove anything bigger than a car or pickup. And go down the road what’s the chances of having an understanding of all the things to do brakes ,stopping , speed things to check,air system , etc. There should be somewhere to go for training to learn about the motor home

[Bob]

Not sure we are being fooled but, we rmay be utilizing them incorrectly. I have a UTB (Unified Tow Brake) system. At the time I bought it, it was highly rated and is supported by Monaco and others. That being said, the system is adjustable and monitorable from the coach drivers seat. UTB advises to set the system to 5 (50%) but I have it at 3-4 (30-40%). I set it below 50% because if the toad brakes come on prior the coach brakes, toad tires will wear rapidly. The trick is to get the toad brakes to slow the car just a bit less than the coach. I’m not sure how to get that kind of adjustment. Of course a 50,000 lbs Prevost has enough braking power that it probably doesn’t even feel the toad during a stop. I’ve made a couple of emergency stops that resulted in most of the bedroom being implanted on the front windshield and the toad and towbar stood up well (I didn’t hit anything either). My thought is that blowing through a traffic light is more a matter of driving style rather than the braking system. Until I learned how to position my foot on the brake pedal, for maximum leverage, I too had problems stopping. I don’t think it was the UTB’s fault.

[Liam]

I am all to fimilar with the stopping distance of an RV on 100+ degree day after running down IH10 for 6+ hours and then have a youngster pull in front of you in the left lane and then shortly after slam on their brakes and come to a stop on the Interstate just because they saw brake lights ahead when they turned around from yaking at someone in the back seat. Needless to say, I own a new Lexus SUV that I have never seen other than when it climbed up my windsheild. They are lucky they are still all alive, just plain stupid.

[Peter]

It is for that very reason I have a dash cam in our coach. For more times than I can recall I have had other vehicles pull in front of us so close our chances of avoiding an accident were slim to none if they had to hit their brakes.

We have had people intnetionally pull close in front and hit their brakes, we have had cars pass us on the left only to zoom across all traffic lanes to exit, and we have had trucks pull in before the trailer cleared us requiring us to rapidly hit our brakes.

The dash cam will not stop an accident, but I sure hope it will record when the other driver caused us to rear end his vehicle.

[AL]

I am an engineer so I ran a simple test. Big hill on a country road. 45mph, put Suburban in neutral, sit off ignition, depress brake pedal. Results, first couple pumps fine, after that even my 300lbs of foot had a very hard time stopping the Suburban.

Net-net: the AF1 vacuum generator or the M&G pressure system are the only systems that I have seen to ensure a “Live” Pedal.

Note That some vehicles (Mine) use power steering Fluid instead of vacuum in the brake booster and only the M&G will work.