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Still working on no start issue….
Bus is at the Freightliner dealer since last Wednesday. Took all the injectors out today and found problems with #1 and #3. This appears to be why it doesn’t want to start after sitting for any length of time. They also found out that all 6 were loose. That was addressed by a service bulletin some time ago, but I was never informed of it by either Detroit or the dealer I have been using since getting the coach in late 2009. We are replacing the carboned up injector for sure and the others are being tested. If they pass they will be re-installed. Picture one shows the failed seal at bottom of injector #1 and picture #2 shows the carbon build up on #3 due to the copper washer/seal above the tip.
If you have rough running or starting issues, they could be related to this issue according to what I was told today.
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24 Replies
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Mark, is the freightliner place a Detroit shop?
I have heard recently from really knowledgable people in the trucking industry that re-man injectors across the board are hit and miss, try to stick with originals if at all possible (meaning ones you have in there now).
Can you share any photos or info on what you had to remove to pull the valve cover on your coach?
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My independant shop told me the same thing re: remanned injectors. They are testing the originals in hopes of keeping 5. The carboned up one is getting replaced as they think it got hot enough that it could be an issue down the road, since access isn’t that great on our busses, they thought it made sense to do it now.
We had to pull the steps out of the closet entry, and then take the access panel that Prevost puts in loose and slide that forward. Then there is enough room to get the valve cover off.
This is a Detroit and Cat and Cummins authorized shop. Freightliner and Western Star shingle.
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Thanks Mark, good info, I hope you get it all sorted out quickly.
Will they also check and set the overhead while they have the valve cover off? If so, and you glean any info on how they do it, please share…curious if they acess couple cylinders from the bedroom…gotta be hard to get up in there and work!
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They will be doing the valve adjustment from the bottom side according to the mechanic. They had to remove everything as they also fixed an oil leak. All that is left on the head deck were the valve springs etc. I am waiting on word about the injectors…I am hoping to get them today. If so, I still hope to get it back before the weekend.
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In case anyone is interested, I got the bus home yesterday afternoon. All is well, and it started again today with no problems. In talking with the tech who did the work, he mentioned that all the valves needed adjustment, and this is an engine with only 65,000 miles on it. He said it was common that Detroit 60 Series would need an adjustment at or prior to Detroits recomended initial interval.
I know there have been discussions here about this before, so I thought I would mention it. I have no independant information from anyone else, but if mine required it, I would not be surprised if others do too.
I also found out that the injector hold downs have a nasty habit of loosening up unless they have been re-torqued according to a bulletin that Detroit sent out to dealers some time ago. From what I was told, they tell dealers to re-torque them if they have any reason to be inside of the valve cover. They also changed the procedure for how they want it done. It is not a recall and they won’t pay warranty money to the dealer to do it, unless they are already on a warranty job.
My engine was still under warranty, but injectors are only covered for 24 months, so I had to eat this one. The mileage on injectors for warranty is 200,000, but the time trumps it in my case.
From the limited driving I have done since the work was completed, it seems to run smoother, and the Jake brake seems stronger. That also gets adjusted as it had to come off for the rest of the work.
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Mark, glad you got it back and going, please report back if you see an increase in mpg.
Speaking to one Detroit service managerr 65K is when the overhead should be set, then it is 500K or whenever there is a decrease in performance or mileage.
I am going to try and get mine doen and test the charge air cooler for leaks… my Detroit shop is literally across the street, have only bought parts from them but they have a great rep….so will tear into bedroom tomorow to get the acess panel loose.
I suspect I will gain some mpg and performance and will be good to know everything in the top end is set and torqued correctly. Also going to pull another oil sample and changes oil and filters this week along with full chassis lube.
Have had the coach 6 mos now and about 20K miles on it, runs good and mpg is consistent but think it can be better!
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Had top end adjustments at about 125K because of my perception of dropping mileage and black smoke puff at tip-in. Couldn’y really notice any change.
BTW, on my coach (without Jake) valve cover came off without removal of the access panel.
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Got into bedroom this morning and was able to remove acess panel with much less work than what Leon @ Marathon said I might encounter. Pull back carpet, remove a few pieces of plywood screwed in. The four bolts that hold in it place and pry and push from engine side as things are stuck together really well after 12 years and your done.
Now there is LOTS of acess. I would not mind doing the valve adjustment myself, even rigging up some caps to test CAC but I do not have the injector height tool, so will go across the street to Detroit if they have time to do it this week.
I have a very minor coolant leak from the hose on back side of radiator, this will make getting to it much easier!
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Pretty cool there gman. You can check your oil going down the road.
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Don’t know about that, but I can not see how alot of stuff can be done without gaining acess from above.
How peter changed the fuel line going into the back of the head from down below is beyond me, hats off to him!
I think everyone with a Series 60 nearing a 100k should have a look under the valve cover.
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Thanks for post and pictures G-Man, that will surely help folks on down the road if they have to gain access.
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I hope so, but am not sure, my coach is a 40 footer, so I wonder if most of the Marathon people have a different setup on the rear closet area, I have that set of drawers and then a hanging half closet abover, no walk in.
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Gman…fire up the mighty S-60, grab your bottle of soapy water. Spray that CAC around the seams then look for the
Lawrence Welk bubbles. You could get lucky and have none…I’ll cross my fingers. If the CAC has to come out the
radiator will be there for that repair also.
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If your CAC is stacked with the radiator (as opposed to being along side of the radiator) the chances are very high you will not have an issue. Do as Al says and soap the top and bottom seams of the CAC with the engine at idle. Some small amount of bubbling is OK, but if it bubbles instantly and with large bubbles the chance of it passing the pressure loss test is slim to none.
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After giving it some thought and doing a lot of reading last night I think I will go ahead and order the injector height tool and make up caps to test the CAC.
I will do a full write up with photos and try and submit as an article as well. The valve adjustment looks to be really straight forward, and I will know it is done right, I did not get all that great of a feeling talking to the guy at Detroit, then again he was not the head service guy either.
Looks like there are different injector height settings on DDEC 2,3,4 and N3 injctors etc. Going to buy the tool with multiple settings, try and make some good caps to test the CAC and piping and will offer up the tools to be passed around to anyone who wants to the same job, one person can just send them on to the next. Stay tuned.
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