[Dick]

“ I could not see everywhere they put it, but they had a Prevost generated diagram on where to use it.”

It sure would be nice if we could have access to that document…

[Archived]

If they have a document I cannot find it. I went through all the recall notices, safety bulletins, and the manufacturer bulletins. Ramco is not among the manufacturers that provide documentation to the web site.

The service manual (section 18) covers the Ramco mirrors but it does not list the procedure Mark describes.

[Don]

Maybe either Bill Dogherty at Liberty or John Kincaid from Prevost can get you the info? Bill told me that it was a Prevost fix, so I don’t think it should be a secret.

[Dorel]

Wow, I did not know there were so many problems associated with $2,0000 mirrors! Mine have a tendency to move down on me, but hey, “I needed to get out of the bus and walk around anyway, right?” (Whadya expect for 33 years old?)

There are fewer and fewer platers good enough to re-plate items like these mirrors. The hexavalent chromium process (which gives a brighter-less blueish color) is on the EPA’s “priority pollutant” list.

As Jon can most likely remember, “good plating used to depend on which guy had the cleanest tanks” but not anymore.

BCO

[Brady]

I will have Bill send it to me on Monday

[Fred]

I
just received new mirrors and arms from Ramco, a 4 week lead time,
and I’m sending them back. Out of the box, the glass was more loose
than the ones on the bus that are 13 years old.

Called
and talked to Mark and he is having them sent back and the heads
reworked. They appear to have a new motor assembly that will fix the
shakes, I may be the guinea pig to see how they work. I’ll let you
know…

[Archived]

Hope they fit your next “last bus” by time you get them….

[Larry]

I once owned a 1974 Harley Superglide. That was before Harley thought of mounting the motor to the frame using rubber motor mounts. Prior to that revelation the motor was mounted directly to the frame, no isolation. What I found was my mirrors, handlebar mounted of course, shook violently at any speed other than around 60 miles per hour. So with the exception of in town roads I simply drove the motor within its “sweet spot” and the mirrors were absolutely steady, no vibration. The housings were chromed but they were no problem. Sold it in 1998 for almost 3 times what I purchased it new. Yes it was a bowling ball, made by AMF that is.

So maybe you all have not found the “sweet spot” for your coach. Best wishes for getting these problems worked out to your satisfaction. Maybe disassemble the motor controlling the mirrors, remove the plastic gears then take them to a machine shop and have some good old metal gears cut to match. Maybe the gears are plastic due to a Presidential Executive Order to lighten up our coaches to achieve higher mileage ratings! You are laughing now?

My “classic” old 8V92, 2 cycle does not have shaky mirrors. I find it difficult to comprehend the slight difference in mirror placement between the drivers side and the curb side of the coach being a significant factor in shaky mirror syndroume. Sounds like salesman BS to me.

[Dick]

Hey Jeff…did you ever get that document from Bill about the “repair” they did on my mirrors in North Chicago? The driver’s side is way better than it was…not perfect, but at least useable now.

[Archived]

Thanks to Jeff at ETLC, here is the shaky mirror fix that Prevost uses..

[Archived]

I moved Jon’s post to combine threads..

Let me see if I have this correct…………

Prevost builds a $500,000 bus, and like they have done with components like charge air coolers, they buy and install mirrors that are so lousy the plating fails due to the lack of a primary copper plating over the aluminum, and the mirror glass shakes so bad drivers cannot see behind them.

So Prevost ignores the crappy plating, but does come up with a dime store fix to limit shaking, rather than getting a new supplier, or forcing the existing supplier to do the fixes before they ship the product.

Did I get that right?

Who at Prevost is responsible for this kind of screwed up thinking?

Jon and Di 2006 Liberty Elegant Lady 2005 H2 Hummer, 1950 Ford Knoxville, TN

[Archived]

Management?

Engineers?

Some one who does not use their product?

A corporation that is trying to shave fifty cents per unit?

[Archived]

I believe the problem continues in every case because internal procedures place a higher value on paperwork than on the quality of the product. In every case because of volume Prevost has the muscle required to effect the changes required to have a better product.

Let’s presume Prevost buys XXX mirrors from Ramco annually. We know the plating fails over time and we know the mirror glass shakes and vibrates. Prevost can resolve the plating failures by insisting the mirrors it receives have the added step of copper plating. It will cost more, but even if it costs $100 more per set the end benefits greatly outweigh the downstream cost to the owner for replacement. Just to put it in perspactive, if an owner is willing to do the complete disassembly his mirrors can be stripped, the surface repaired, and the parts completely replated using the correct process for $800. So from that we know the cost to add the correct first step of copper plating on an OEM basis makes the most sense because it is the cheapest and best fix.

The mirror glass vibration issue can also be resolved. Not necessarily with a glop of Sikaflex, but probably with some vibration absorbing components or spacers which will add a little cost, but likely less than $5.

As an alternative Prevost can find a supplier whose product will not have these issues. But somewhere in the chain of command someone is not paying attention and has no clue how pissed off the marketplace is about these issues. I am sure we all have driven cars and pickup trucks for years with heated, adjustable mirrors. I also assume, like me nobody else has ever had any of those mirrors vibrate so we could not see what was behind us. How hard can it be to make decent quality mirrors for our coaches? I’m guessing those in high places don’t get to hear the complaints. They need to.

[Alvie]

Jon,

All good stuff and I guess the other thing I would suggest you Tom or whoever talks to Prevost is to remind them of the amount of potential buyers that are spending a bunch of time on PC reading all this. I have absolutely no regrets in the purchase of our coach but.. all these small things add up.CAC, doors, belts, mirrors etc… at some point you could reach a tipping point with prospective buyers. This most likely isn’t my last coach not sure if we will ever buy a new one but won’t for sure without assurances that these things have been addressed..It would be interstesting to see how a converter would respond to a new customer that said I don’t want Ramco mirrors, etc.

[Archived]

I have been on a rant lately, not because our coaches aren’t great, but because they are so great it makes no sense for Prevost or us to tolerate crappy components. There is not a single one of the recent ones discussed that will require super human effort to resolve. In fact the solution on all of them is obvious, so that makes them seem to be bigger irritants. I have often wondered with any thing I purchased if I become aware of some stupid defects that I can see or know about, how many similar thiings are hiddent behind the scenes.

I won’t be in Canada at the rally but a number of our members will be and that is a great opportunity to mention these issues.