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I could part my home built out and put some cash with it and had that factory coach at those prices! Lots less work. Or just kept my presant bus for replacement parts(they are all new after rebuild). Bob

[Bob]

Clifford,

What we have been seeing is the impact of the economic down turn and the changes it brought about regarding financing. The magic number is 10 years, with maybe some wiggle room but after 10 years it is generally difficult if not impossible to finance a coach.

The ripple effect from this is creating situations as you describe. I suspect the same holds true for planes and boats.

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Not unusual, it will probably end up back on the market for 140K with someone making serious bucks.

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Not this one he plans on driving it for a long time he was thrilled when I called him and gave him the news

[Paul]

Clifford:

This thread is another example of me learning something everytime you post.

Is there a website listing out there of bank and wholesale buses, or do you just find these listings because of your long experience in the industry?

Just when I think I am getting an idea about how buses should be valued, a thread like this comes along.

Thank you.

Al

[Fred]

Al no bus…….

You can get a sense of pricing by going to every internet site that lists coaches for sale. That helps you develop an understanding of the ASKING prices for coaches for sale. There are many sites where you can find Prevost coaches for sale.

Patterns will become apparent. You will get a sense of how prices relate from conversion to conversion. You can understand how slides impact the price. You will see the relative values of 40 foot coaches compared to 45s or the 8V92 compared to the Series 60 for example.

But that is only the beginning. The internet photos don’t show wear and tear. Every coach looks good in photos but in person you can see the details that do not show up in the photos. You cannot smell mold and mildew on photos. You cannot see dog hair. You cannot see how pristine a coach is, or how abused it is or know if it smells of cigar smoke. You have to physically set foot in the coach. And you have to do this often enough to mentally keep track of how asking prices relate to the coach.

Clifford’s example of a dirt cheap coach is so far off the charts it has to be considered unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Conversely someone out there probably has bought a coach for a similar amount above market value. The problem is everyone lies about actual sale prices. The sellers never admit to selling a coach well below the market and a buyer never wants to admit to paying too much. So to expect to get accurate information is folly.

Very few have the balls to buy auction coaches. But a repo that is run through an auction is likely to be an opportunity and only luck will decide if the purchase was a good one or a bad one. At the price cited a buyer can afford to fix a broken motor or transmission or to repair a lot of hidden damage. But not everyone is prepared for the risk so the real selling prices are what a seller will accept and what a buyer will pay and it is always going to be lower than the asking prices. It’s just that nobody really knows how much lower.

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There is a lot of truth to that Jon, but 6 years ago you would never see a coach at Marathon selling for 100 grand or under 325 grand was about the average

I just got a sales sheet from Marathon they have over 60 coaches in 3 locations with the consignments for sale that range from 80 grand up to a million I don’t think we seen the bottom yet I look at like a 2000 model is 14 years old now what price do put on a 14 year old coach ?

People with the cash money are in the drivers seat and can find some buys but who knows that bargain could be worth nothing in 2 years the best one can do is never plan on nothing in return for the purchase price and enjoy their coach

For a couple of years I could flip one and make a few bucks it’s not working now for me the last one cost me money to get rid of

[Clifford]

Having just bought a 9-year old after researching for months, it’s is clear that one can expect at least a 10% price reduction off the asking price of any coach offered. In my case, some dealers were offering it before I even asked, and I spoke to several.

its not unlike the housing market in some respects in that time on the market and asking price are closely related. Pity those who overprice their for-sale and then, after many months finally sell for less than they could have gotten had they priced it right in the first place.

Coaches are an awful “investment”, but I sure love them! The coach I bought lost about 70 percent of its original value in those 9 years. I’m tempted To declare that most of the loss is in the conversion and not the shell, but then I’m just musing….

[jack]

The edit part here on the board doesn’t work for anyway Marathon had that coach for about a year on consignment and had a price of 199,000 others had for 175,000 down to 150,000 it didn’t sell so Chase dumped it at a bargain IMO

John Deere Credit has one I am looking at it’s a XL I am getting where I like those better than a H series they look more like bus but a H series is a fine looking conversion the right one for the price would be hard to pass up

The edit part appears to work fine!

[Clifford]

If Marathon had that coach and it wouldn’t sell at their price I find it odd they did not buy it at the auction.

Nobody has the ability to resell a Marathon and get top dollar for it than Marathon. They know the coach better than anyone and can put it in tip top shape quicker and easier than anyone.

Buying Prevost conversions is an activity that makes zero sense. But we do it because we love the lifestyle.

[Bob]

Where do the converters draw a line Jon they have been buying some buses back over the last few years, Liberty is real good at keeping their conversion price up how much longer that will last remains to be seen most all the converters have their plates full now low on cash because the new stuff is not moving

Marathon did try their best to keep the bank from selling below their list price,the bank had already written the bus off so money wasn’t important to the bank and so they let it go

It did go out for auction 1 time and the bank pulled it because it wasn’t bringing the dollars Marathon had told them it would then they end up almost giving it away makes no sense to me

Then you have converters like Outlaw and Star that will sell you a new one with slides for 8 to 900 thousand not the best conversions on the market but some over look the flaws because of the price really nothing to do but enjoy your bus and the life style

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Jon, you may have noticed it also but for years you could always buy a used Newell for a lot less money than a Prevost for the same year model that is not happening now both are in a few bucks of each other

I don’t think it is because Newell has increased that much in resale only reason I can see why it is happening is because Prevost conversions resale has dropped so much

Can you fix the edit feature for me it’s never worked for me ?

Clifford,

I just logged in under your user name and password and I am editing your last post.

It is working OK

Me too, I’ve tried the edit on 2 of your posts…Tom

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Jon:

You are so right about seeing them in person. Last year, I spent about 6 hours one weekend crawling through buses in Nashville. I used my nose way more than I expected. Each bus had a distinct smell. On one, my four year old said, “Smell like cow.” He was correct. We later found that it was owned by a livestock auctioneer. Several buses smelled of mildew and mold. I found out later that some of them and been in the wrong location for spring time flooding.

I have been looking on the sites of your advertisers and other internet sites. I spend a lot of time in commercial aircraft. Ebay is free on the in-flight wireles provider, so I Iook at that one often. It does have some sale data.

However, I have not found any auction, repossession, or wholesale sites that are bus specific. Are they not out there, or am I missing them?

Thanks again for your input.

Al

[Archived]

Al,

I am no expert on the Prevost coach marketplace. I did not even stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

But I have poked around and found there is no standard pattern for auctions or repos. There is wholesale activity however. I think if a coach ends up at auction it is the culmination of efforts to sell on the open market via internet sites or from a dealers inventory or consignment. I wouldn’t characterize ebay sales as an auction unless the coach is a no-reserve. Usually it is a seller that wants some exposure and wants to begin a conversation with potential buyers.

On those rare occasions when I have been alerted to a coach going through an auction ranging from coaches that are junk to nearly new high end seizures the seller is often a bank or government entity and often the buyers are dealers or converters who will make some effort to fix it up and resell it. The buyers need to be risk tolerant and need to be capable of doing repairs. I was aware of a nearly new coach that was seized and the successful bidder had to put a lot of money into repairs despite its young age and recent extensive repairs. I am sure auction buyers need to do as much pre-purchase inspection as any other buyer or be willing to eat the costs of repairs if the inspection is limited.

When the economy went down a few years ago the entire market went down with it. Coaches that would have brought $300,000 wouldn’t bring $200,000 and owners all of a sudden were upside down if they owed money on the coach. If a buyer had cash he was king. How much he paid for a coach had less to do with the model year or conversion than who he was buying it from. Owners who were upside down found themselves selling the coach for less than they owed or facing the prospect of the lender taking the coach back when they couldn’t pay for it.

Dealers and converters who did not react to the rapidly changing situation found themselves with an inventory that was worth less each passing day. Even if a buyer made a great deal on the purchase of a coach he found his coach was depreciating at an alarming rate also.

I think there are likely real steals in the market today but nowhere near the number seen a few years ago. Coaches are selling again. But buyers know how prices were hammered and they are still seeking “deals”. Today I think the biggest impediment to sales is the lack of financing on older coaches so that end of the market is still suffering and we can see some coaches that have been on the market for a long time. With far less auction sales of repos and seizures than 2 or 3 years ago and people feeling better about the economy sales are picking up based on conversations we have with converters and dealers. But remember they are sticking to newer models so financing is not impacting them as it does on older coaches.

The real bargains are on older XL and H3 coaches but I have a buyer beware attitude. When the economy slumped owners saw the value of their coaches drop significantly yet the cost of maintaining those coaches stayed the same or climbed. It became very hard to justify spending money to maintain a less valuable coach, especially when the owners were suffering in the down economy, so a lot of what is on the market in older coaches needs expensive work, ranging from tires to batteries or AC system repairs. That further depresses prices, but in some cases the sellers did not get the memo that the coach price needs to reflect the costs to make the coach right. It is up to the buyers to be very careful or face some large expenses. That is even more true than ever with auction coaches.

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Thanks Tom must be my FireFox or the Dell it doesn’t work for me today

For the guy looking for auctions I find Ritchie Bros will have repos for banks last year at the Phoenix sell there was 8 late model conversion sad part is Ritchie Bro won’t just let anyone bid you need a letter from the bank showing the funds are there before they approve one to bid

Most of the time if you are not there in person at the sale you never know about the coaches because it was a last mintue entry and hence no pre sale information who knows that maybe a planned out deal like the ghost bidders at some sales I hate that

For years the converter could re-course a note and sell a coach to about anybody just like housing they were sold to people that really could not afford one

They played game some would discount the over inflated list price and apply that to the down payment and people could drive off without parting with a lot of cash,that came back to bite some converters they are no longer here

To show you how times have changed for years John Deere Credit where my grandson works would loan on a conversion for 10% down now they require at least 30% with a credit score of 700+

The down turn affected all conversion sales the market became over ran and it will be years IMO before it returns if ever, like Jon said just enjoy your ride there is nothing else one can do but if one is looking with cash there are some bargains