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PRE-PURCHASE INSPECTION
I get a lot of calls from members who are potential buyers. The conversation often relates to questions either about something discussed on the forum or something regarding service. Without ever having had a Prevost some people aren’t aware of some of the things we cover on the forum because they haven’t yet had the opportunity to get into the systems or mechanical aspects of a coach. Even we owners get confused, or just don’t know what we don’t know.
A recent string of calls related to coaches that were under consideration for purchase. I think in every case the buyer had already decided to buy the coach, and I got the impression in every case the deal had been struck, but there was no discussion between the buyer and seller about an inspection. In one instance the potential buyer was not even going to get an inspection done. He said the seller had all the maintenance records and apparently in his mind that was good enough.
I will repeat what experienced buyers have learned, sometimes expensively. Do not buy a coach without a comprehensive pre-purchase inspection. Let me repeat that for emphasis: DO NOT BUY A COACH WITHOUT A COMPREHENSIVE PRE-PURCHASE INSPECTION.
Every seller is going to tell a buyer the coach is well maintained. I get that. So when a buyer insists on a pre-purchase inspection it is very much like saying he does not believe what the seller is telling him. Maybe so, but the consequences of failing to inspect a coach can get very expensive very fast. Additionally, it is likely if a buyer is alongisde the inspector the experience also becomes a training opportunity because a full blown inspection involves not only looking at things, it involves operating things to verify they work.
Arranging for a pre-purchase inspection on a coach is cumbersome. It requires the engine dealer (Detroit or Volvo) to run the codes and verify the engine and transmission have no active codes or anything in the history to suggest a potentially damaging event. The chassis needs to be inspected, and if the coach is an XLII the only place to inspect the chassis has to be Prevost unless it is documented the skin delamination issue has been permanently corrected. Additionally the conversion requires an inspection. The bottom line is no less than 2 places and maybe 4 places are going to be involved inspecting a coach and that presents a logistical nightmare. As a seller I would have to drive or arrange to have the coach taken to every location involved in the inspections, because I am not turning my coach over to a buyer. Not until cash has changed hands.
As a buyer every one of my coaches was inspected in detail and in every instance the results were excellent. But as someone helping friends look at coaches they were considering, in all cases I found serious, expensive problems quickly. I look at things based on relative expense so when I find problems in the first 10 minutes or so they relate to big dollar items like A/C systems or the generator. And those are before I even get beneath the coach.
As buyers I urge you to take your time looking at important things that can add up to a lot of dollars. If at all possible operate everything. If documents are available spend the hours necessary to match the records against the recommended service requirements. Get beneath the coach and look for wet spots, chafing of hoses, the air system, date codes on tires and batteries, and signs of damage.
Whatever you do, do not let a visual inspection of the interior and exterior be the end of the pre-purchase due dilligence. I can almost guarantee you will have regrets unless you have a very honest and responsible seller who has insured everything is right and any problems have been addressed.
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14 Replies
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Thanks Jon!
It certainly paid dividends when I bought my coach!
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This is priceless advice, as is all advice that Jon goes through the effort to help us all with.
For the Record, I can tell you personally, PANTERRA COACH in Holland Michgan, goes way above and beyond with customer service and maintenance assurance for the Buyer … You can work with Rex, Joyce , Mike and Randy with ZERO hesitation. They do everything necessary to prepare a “pre-owned” coach for a new owner – which includes the 2 super huge issues that we all are familiar with and justifiably paranoid about …- NEW Tires and NEW Batteries!! … Their practice is to allow the buyer to move forward on a Purchase with total and complete peace of mind, knowing FOR SURE there are no hidden “ghosts” in the machine. You may pay “a little more” when you do Biz with PANTERRA, but it is a VERY small price to pay, in exchange for UNQUESTIONABLE peace of mind.
I have only bought 1 coach to date, and therefore I only have one buying experience, so I obviously do not now know how other dealers or private sellers operate, … other than to heed Jon’s strong advice, and speculate the obvious – as Jon has clearly indicated – they will likely “Over Promise”… And it will likely result in a significant cost to you as a buyer, so pay attention to what Jon is teaching!!
As for Me, I will NEVER buy a Coach from any person, or any organization other than PANTERRA COACH in Holland Mi. (www.panterracoach.com) … Yes, I know that is a super “Strong” statement, but Facts by their very nature are FACTS – PANTERRA Coach’s are the equivalent of a Coach just rolling out of the “used bus factory” – georgeous, and over the top “road ready” – .. And I can tell you first hand, that it just seems impossible to have a better buying experience. PANTERRA Coach is the Pinacle of Nirvana when it comes to buying with PEACE OF MIND.
See for yourself !! (panterracoach.com)
😛
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Well that’s great I am sure they are great to deal with but I can tell you that new tires and batteries are a small piece of buying a used coach, there are so many things to check I doubt that a new owner would ever know what to look for with out help , it can really put a damper on owning a Prevost if the new owner does not have a third party look the coach over, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!! When u don’t know what to look for you don’t know , everybody the first time is going to need help. I have helped many people look at coaches and can say that every time I have inspected a coach there is lots of things that need done , other than tires and batteries, In that last few years it has got better to buy a coach from a lot of private owners because of this forum and the stuff they are doing to keep a coach up to date, people are replacing air bags , servicing the air systems , ect , ect !!!! and replacing stuff before it brakes and not waiting for it to brake, Have fun with your coaches
If you take care of it it will take care of you!!!!! -
Let me irritate sellers, and insult buyers, all in the interest of making sure a buyer has no surprises.
If anyone thinks the seller can be trusted to do the pre-purchase inspection then at the very least get a written warranty. In that instance the seller is in fact validating they did a complete inspection. But absent a bullet proof warranty the buyer is at risk.
To do a complete inspection on an XLII nobody but Prevost can inspect the skins. If they have been repaired that is not required. To do a complete inspection someone has to have the ability to run the codes and do the evaluation of the engine and transmission. To the best of my knowledge only the engine dealer and an Allison dealer can do the inspection, because in the case of the transmission the evaluation is done via the internet with a link to Allison.
How many buyers are knowledgible enough to know how to check and evaluate everything is OK with the pneumatic systems which have been a huge expensive problem for some owners? The brake systems? The A/C systems which require protracted run times to stabilize so temps and operation can be evaluated? The air system which begins leaking like a screen door as coaches age? Slides and slide seals? Crestron or coach operation systems? All audio visual components?
How many buyers have even seen the underside of their coach prior to purchase, and if so understood what to look for, ranging from bushings, brakes, grease fittings and their dust covers, loose suspension components like tie rods and drag links, ball joints and U joints? Anyone buying a coach get an opportunity to inspect the bushings in the A arms?
My point is buyers find the coaches so overwhelming and that there is so much to learn, it is very easy to miss inspections of very critical systems and not even realize it has been overlooked. I will be shocked if there is a single buyer who has ever had a seller demonstrate a DOT pre-trip brake test to prove the integrity of the brakes. Unless the buyer is highly qualified to do a pre-purchase inspection it is beneficial to engage a third independent party to do a detailed inspection.
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We see it all the time…. The paint is beautiful, it has new TV’s and the interior is just great. The purchase is made without the slightest concern of anything below the floor. Then the next thing they hear is that big sucking sound that is their wallet being siphoned by necessary repairs and electrical issues.
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I agree with everything that has been said about getting an inspection. So why did we take the chance of buying the coach without a thorough inspection? We had looked at this coach for a while, and last fall we got serious about it. We knew we’d be taking a risk buying a coach where he refused an inspection, so we gave a low-ball offer that he refused, so we started to look for other coaches. Lo and behold, on New Year’s Eve he called and accepted our low-ball offer, and he agreed to a reasonable trade-in for the coach we had been trying to sell for several months. After some mulling over, we decided to go for it, despite several of the issues we had already identified. We loved the colors inside and out, as well as the floor plan. The fact that it fell way under our budget didn’t hurt, and with Prevost and Marathon within 300 miles we knew we could get it fixed. So far we have gotten the significant issued zeroed out, although a few still remain. Helps to have a good credit rating! I would not necessarily recommend this approach to anyone else, but we are very happy with the coach. Will head to Coushatta Casino this afternoon for the first non-maintenance related trip. I do have to say Prevost and Marathon were outstanding in their help on the coach. Want to take it to Jeff’s too, but he is a long ways off, so we’ll have to see when we can make the trip.
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Not surprised to see you heading to a Casino, Per. Buying the coach as you did confirms you are a gambler.
I hope every buyer reading Per’s post understands the risk taken. The seller knows what the coach is worth. Remember that. Nobody “steals” a coach unless they are buying a foreclosure and the bank is stuck with it, and then “stealing the coach” means you took an even bigger gamble than Per, and maybe just got real lucky.
A bad engine can be $40,000 by the time all is said and done. A transmission can approach $12,000 to $15,000. Skin delam issues have been reported as high as $50,000 with paint extra. A water logged air system can very quickly require repairs over $10,000 depending on your luck. We are aware of some coaches with updated front caps that have serious structural deficiencies and coaches whose rear structure has failed welds due to hanging excess weight on the hitch or adding a motorcycle lift. One of our members was good enough to alert everyone, including the broker selling the coach that the coach had an extensive damage history, something only a comprehensive inspection would have revealed.
Getting inspections can be a royal pain but if the seller balks they know something they prefer that you do not know. But even if the seller is willing to help get inspections, that does not mean the coach has no issues. With the exception of the engine, transmission and skin delam checks a buyer can do the inspection. But to do so requires knowledge of the coach, an ability to get beneath the coach gettings one’s hands dirty, and sufficient tools to access behind doors and panels and to get units of measurement ranging from A/C temps to electrical values.
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…. this is ALL amazing advice…. and Since JON is also a PILOT (“hazzardous thinking mitigation by nature”), personally I would NEVER question, or dispute his advice! … NO DOUBT, Jon is on a misson to HELP all of us, and save us ALL serious HEART / bank account / ACHE.
Relevant to the previous response to my first post RE: PANTERRA (new tires, and batteries, etc) … by the way, Our coach came complete with new AIR BAGS, ….New Brake Lines, new…NORGREN valves, … new Mirrors, (super solid – Verry little vibratation!), New WINDSHIELD’s, Engine up to date maintenance schedule, verified INTERNAL Systems functionality, etc… – The Coach was ZERO-ED out on my behalf,… and PANTERRA stands behind thier claims…
IF – you are like me, and NOT a PILOT, or a MECHANIC, or a person with deep personal “expentiential” resouces to draw on when considering the purchase of a PREVOST conversion….
I agree with PER, there is a lot to consider here, and ALL of it is REALLY SCARY!!! ….
Having said that… if you want to buy from a REPUTABLE group of REAL people who are SERIOUS about YOUR satisfaction… Pursue PANTERRA (Rex, Joyce, Mike, and Randy)…. Seriously… its CRAZY how they provide “Service after the sale”….
Just my two cents here, … I know this is SEROUS stuff with HUUUUUGE *Dollars* attached , … and JON’S advice and the meticulous nature with wich he dispenses said advise should NEVER be questioned… After all, he is the GRAND MASTER GURU of all things PREVOST –> for sure!….
BUT, if you are like me (… as mechanically inclined as a TABLE or a SHOE, lacking “next step resources”, by nature)
… After YEARS of searching, I have NEVER met anyone MORE passionate about PREVOST Coaches, and customer satisfaction (I’m pretty sure I have Interviewed them all! over a 6 yr period … some are still around -> LOTS are now gone…), than REX Yancy, in particular. … Beyond that. he has a team that is insanely focused on customer satisfaction — AFTER the sale.
Look… I am just sharing my PERSONAL experience here, SO sorry if I sound like some sort of Advertisement or Infomercial, etc… that is NOT my intention… I just know how Handicapped I feel when I begin to dig into how complex these rigs are, and how SCARY the PURCHASE process is – thats all.
I have no doubt that in addition to *JEFF* there are nice people around the country that are “willing” to help you – … BUT JON’s ADVICE MUST BE FOREMOST IN YOUR MIND !! —
… I have NO dog “in the fight”, here … just being totally REAL, based on my PERSONAL experience, in a world of ILLUSION.
Listen to EVERYTHING that JON (and or TOM) has to say, and then “Figure it out” from there…
God bless you in your pursuit of –> “THE LIFESTYLE”… The PAIN is totaly worth the REWARD!!! – when you find the “right ” Coach.
In My HUMBLE Opinion — Thank You….
Rock on! …
🙂
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Why are you yelling? That’s what capitol letters mean.;)
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… sorry, man… its a bad habbit… — As a Merchant Banker, when communicating in written form – ALL “entities” (or KEY points) in “legal speak”, are always Capitalized… for CLARIFICATION…
I’ll try to break the habbit for future referece in this forum.
Hate the GAME… not the PLAYER… HA!
Please forgive ME. … really appreciate all you guys do! …. PREOSTCOMMUNITY.COM is an incredible resouce, that I am personally, super grateful for.
THANKS!
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Well KEVIN since you got this all covered , WE should not hear from you about things wrong on your coach ! It’s 100% So take over the reins and answer all the QUESTIONS !!!
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Jon,
Once we cheched out the engine and transmission, everything else was just a wee bit of $$. Besides, as I mentioned before it is all your fault since you insisted on us getting a coach with OTR AC. Marathon coaches after 2000 with OTR AC are scarce as hens teeth–Al picked up 591 long before we were ready, and not much else is on the market. Since I know you love Prevosts, and we adopted a long neglected coach and are heaping buckets full of cash on her with loving care, the least you could do is waive our Prevost membership dues for the next ten years–as a matter of fact, I think you ought to refund our dues for the last year! -
I agree Per, check’s in the mail.
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Per, Notice how freely Tom spends money.
Here’s a different spin on coach inspections.
Doing an extensive pre-purchase inspection is not necessarily intended to be a means of justifying the killing of a deal. If some purchasers are willing to accept a coach with issues the inspection is the best way to determine what it takes to restore an underloved coach to great condition.
The inspection is therefore a means of completely understanding as a buyer what you are getting youself into, and making sure the coach is a fit with your objective. It is also a very good bargaining tool, not necessarily to use as a means of beating up a seller, but as a means of making the seller aware that some repairs may require a price adjustment to compensate for the cost of repairs.
There are a lot of folks who are very happy to get a less than perfect coach as long as the selling price reflects what they are buying. It is the buyers who fail to do the inspection, and end up buying a coach with expensive unplanned issues that are getting burned unless they are very lucky.
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