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Powertec issue
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Pics
Jeff and Lindsay
91 Marathon XL -
Ok it just started with the issue. Gen ran about 30 mins till it started. Motor on powertec seems to be running fine with a coolant temp of 170.
Clicking noise started both inside and outside the coach. Inside is under the sink. I have not taken apart yet. Outside is in the box and from the relay shown. The relay clicks back and forth rapidly for about 10 seconds every minute or so. The voltage on both legs is VERY sporadic as the clicking is happening.
Thoughts?
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Bill, my first coach, a late 1987 had a power source selector switch as shown in your photo, and I assumed the switch selected the source. What I do not know is if that switch handled the load or if it only closed the points on a contactor that was handling the load because I never had an issue.
Given what you described I would start my investigation by opening the box you depicted, and with a helper listen or see if any relays or contactors in the box switch to close their contacts. I would use all positions on the switch to verify and perhaps identify which contactors are for shore, inverter or generator power.
Next I would run the generator and see or listen to determine if a relay or contactor is dropping out or chattering. If I was unable to determine visually or by listening I would use a multi-tester to verify what is happening.
As to an automatic transfer switch, assuming the manual switch in the coach is only powering relays and not carrying loads then converting to an automatic transfer switch will be relatively easy. If the manual switch carries heavy loads the wiring or cabling may be more complex and difficult. I bet Liberty can answer that question easily. An automatic transfer switch makes life easy, but may add a small amount of complexity for future repairs.
2005 XL Thompson Coach
Rarely tow anything behind us.
Sold: 1993 Liberty that we loved for 12 years. -
Thanks Jon.
Im am pretty sure that this is the replacement for the switch I currently have. I would say that it is a direct replacement. I have seen the back of mine when we installed the new inverters. This appears to be exactly the same without taking it back out.
https://www.bluesea.com/products/9077/AC_Rotary_Switch_-_OFF_%2B_3_Positions_240V_AC_65A
Jon I may need a loan though if that is my problem! lol
I did notice a small fuel line leak in this process. I am not sure if that could have been causing enough of a drop in generator power to be causing this issue or not. I should know soon, as I have had everything back up and running for about 20 minutes now.
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As I suspected the small fuel issue had nothing to do with the voltage drop issue. It started again after about 40 mins this time.
2005 XL Thompson Coach
Rarely tow anything behind us.
Sold: 1993 Liberty that we loved for 12 years. -
I’m not sure how your switching is set up. The switch has a 65 amp rating so it can carry some loads, but Liberty may have set it up just to handle a relay or contactor. If it were my coach I would retain the original set up because while a transfer switch is nice, not having one was never an issue.
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One thing I did forget to mention. Issue starts and I shut ALL inside breakers off. While leaving the transfer switch on “Generator” the dropout and clicking continue. This is with absolutely no load at all. Once I switch the transfer switch to “Shore” all is normal.
The relay in the picture chatters bad in direct combination as the loud clicking inside while the voltage drop is happening. So is my thinking wrong if I’m asking myself is the relay causing the issue inside or is it possible that something (possibly the transfer switch) is causing the issue in the relay?
I told you I know just enough to drive you guys and me nuts:)
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Bill:
Had this happen twice to me. Both times it was the voltage regulator. Once it cools down it will work again until the heat shuts it down again. Each time it will fail a little sooner until it doesn’t work at all.
Let it cool down, suggest overnight. Remove the cover from the box that houses the relays, breakers, connections from gen, etc. Put a fan blowing air into that box (where the voltage regulator is). Start the gen and load it. I am willing to bet it will run for a prolong period of time because you are cooling down the voltage regulator.
As noted this happen twice, because the new voltage regulator overheated too. The second time I moved the voltage regulator outside of the box and mounted it below the box in the air flow of the incoming fresh air (CAUTION-If the voltage regulator is touched while the gen is running you could get one hell of a shock). If you choose to move the voltage regulator out in the open and other people work on your generator they could get shocked.
Chuck
Voltage regulator in the picture is the small tan color box in the bottom right corner
Jeff and Lindsay
91 Marathon XL -
Bill,
Can you check the voltage at the generator while the issue is happening? Obviously the gen breaker would have to be on this time. If its 123v there during the episode it isnt a generator issue but a problem further on. Transfer switch, connection etc. I also think VR. Had the same issue same symptoms.
2005 XL Thompson Coach
Rarely tow anything behind us.
Sold: 1993 Liberty that we loved for 12 years. -
Thanks guys. If it is the VR I’m not going to be happy. The pictures below are of me replacing it at a Collector Car Auction near State College, PA. It was only about 100 degrees that weekend. It is a MAJOR pita, as it is behind the generator. I had parts from powertec over-nighted. It was not a direct replacement and needed to be completely rewired on my cocktail table! Lol Exhaust needs to come apart and the entire assembly needs to be pulled out much further than the rollers allow. The worst part is trying to dial it in once it’s installed. Nearly impossible.
I do agree about the heat. That is what the symptoms tell me as well. I guess I have to consider someone moving it out of the gen compartment. Funny how the original lasts 25 years and the “updated” one lasts less than 4!:(
Seems that it is beyond what I want to get into. I’ll call powertec and go from there.
Thanks
Bill III
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YEP
That’s the old one I replaced and the new one that failed after about 150 hours of running (in Florida summer heat).
Chuck
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I’m not moving north so I guess i need to rewire the whole thing.
Chuck so yours started in the box in the picture that you posted? Mine is mounted inside the box that is part of the genset with the 70 amp breakers.
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Bill:
What I think I know is;
The louvers that vent the hot air from the electrical end of the generator (where the generator bolts to the motor) was discharging the hot air right on to the electrical box where the voltage regulator was mounted. It’s been awhile so forgive me if my numbers are off but as I remember it, the voltage regulator upper temp limit is around 145 degs. Inside the electrical box where the VR was mounted the temps were around 180-185 deg. Hence the reason I moved it outside of the electrical box.
Chuck
2005 XL Thompson Coach
Rarely tow anything behind us.
Sold: 1993 Liberty that we loved for 12 years. -
Makes perfect sense to me. Do you have any pictures of how you made the upgrade? Did you extend the existing wires or just replace them? Did you have to drill through the box or did it have access? Did you completely remove the generator?
Last night I found a generic voltage regulator on Amazon for $41. Specs are the same and it even looks pretty much the same. Reviews were fine. Has anyone used this? If it would have been $100 cheaper I probably would have passed on it. For less than 10% of the cost I had to give it a try. Has anyone ever tried this part?
Bill III
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Hi Bill,
Given the huge hassle that ensues when your VR fails it seems to make sense not to pinch pennies here. When i had this issue the builders of my unit (Martin) told me not to use the cheap Chinese voltage regulators. They sold me one (Flight Systems Model 634) and walked me through the wiring changes that were needed. They said this was one of the only high quality VRs that would have the longevity of the original Balsar VR634-4. I paid $250 and the support that came with it was incredible. Consider giving Martin a call. They were extremely knowledgeable, patient and helpful. The engineer spent all the time needed to make sure every thing was hooked up correctly. Jeff
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