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Businesses fail every day. Some fail because the owners dig their own graves. Rick

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As one of the original members of POG and someone who probably has had more posts on POG than the next several combined it saddens me to see what has happened since it was converted from a member driven site with a manager paid by the $100 dues, to a commercial site in which the members are only seen as cash flow.

POG has and has had a lot of good members. But it is morphing into a paid site for travel information, a site where old FMCA articles are cut and pasted, and a supposedly private site that always has 3 or 4 times as many “guests” on line than members. In fact the recent numbers show there were more on line one day in March than POG has members which indicates there are mechanisms probably in place to boost statistics so as to attract advertisers and justify higher fees. At one time POG was THE source of Prevost information. Now information of questionable value is provided to what appears to be mostly newer owners who are really in need of accurate information, not information provided by an uncertified mechanic who competes with POG’s own advertisers.

What a mess.

I’m guessing nobody will cut and paste the above to POG.

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POG Censorship! Hell yes, that’s what’s it’s all about, if you
don’t like what someone says, just delete their post. If done quick
enough, most of the members don’t even know it happened and move on
to the latest travel tip. Most of the time you will be kicked off the
site, locked out with hopes you will just go away. Forget getting
your 100 bucks back, remember, it’s all about the money.

Last time I was there, they had more “guests” than
members online and assume the phony guests (bots) are helpful when
cranking up bogus numbers for the Sponsor’s. Next time your on POG,
scroll down to the bottom left and you will see the current
activity, members vs guests.

I like Jon was one of the original founding POG members and it was
a great organization. Today is has great people as members, but the
organization has turned to a commercial entity with profit as it’s
main goal. Without a counter balance to incorrect and sometime
misleading statements involving maintenance and safety, the 100 bucks
a year just gets you cut and paste random articles from the RV world.

For those that think I have an Ax to grind, your wrong, there
wouldn’t even be a PC if Skiff would have been reasonable 2 years ago
in selling the sites (his idea) and 5 of the original POG members
would have taken Stuff and POG to a new level. So he sold Jamie a
bill of goods and here we are today.

I now have been told we are the POG/Stuff enemy and that’s a sad
day for the POG members. We see the POG members as friends and members of both sites who could care less about any balance sheet.

Censorship is NOT alive and well here and you can’t beat the price!

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About Four years ago my first exposure to a member was not good. They informed me WHO THEY WERE! I left thinking wow what a bunch of snobs! Would sure pass them on the side of the road. If I had not know Jon from another board I would not have tried here. Have met several members and they have been great! The board or organazation is a sum of it’s members and leaders. Bob

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I remembered when my POG post was censored. I posted 2 web site addresses along with a helpful message. A POG member was looking for some ideas before undertaking an interior bus remodel.

The “problem” as I was informed by private e-mail from former owner Skiff that both of the sites were not advertisers on POG.

So in my case he was deleting my message. In all my years …. Never had I experienced censorship. From a standpoint of customers relations a short message to me would have handled the situation. Skiffs comments / reason / and action was beyond anything I had experienced.

Sad as some never learn by the mistakes others make.

Sometimes desperate people do things and there is no turning back.

Good luck POG

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And Bob, ironically I attempted twice to get on the BCM site, but because I was associated with PC I was not allowed back on.

I still read it daily and there are times I could offer Prevost owners some insight, but I can no longer post.

What I offered was to cross link PC and BCM, and apparently the powers that be saw that as me trying to pirate their membership and all of a sudden I was blocked from posting despite 2 emails asking to be allowed on.

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Need to read my new post over there. I will do it as soon as I leave here. Bob.

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I was a member of POG for four years and after the transition from Skiff noticed a steady decline in content. While I do not believe I was ever impacted by censorship, I did find that the site became increasingly difficult to navigate and there were few posts and most lacking content. Put simply, the brain trust left!

John

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Bob, I appreciate the comments from you and Clifford on BCM. I would be more than happy to participate in the BCM forum if they would let me register (again), but if someone is in a pickle trying to sort out some Prevost stuff we would be happy to help them here. We are not trying to steal members. BCM is a site with a different purpose than PC but lately it seems all sites are getting territorial and that hurts all of us because cross posting links and information benefits everyone.

One area where homebuilder really are an asset is for those with store bought conversions who want to re-engine their coaches, Between you guys and Ken I am certain you can steer those folks in the right direction. We will not censor anyone for linking or steering folks to any site where they can get information and answers. In fact there are only a few things that are so bad we will censor a post, and in the thousands of posts we have had this last year the only two that were deleted were Chinese registrants posting about adult toys and RV furniture.

[Bob]

Tough crowd! For anyone that’s ever run a community
forum you know all too well that there can be challenges with some members. I’m not suggesting this is the case here;
just that it can be a challenge.
Censorship should always be expected when the posting guidelines
established by the forum owner have been broken. Beyond that it’s the personal prerogative of
the owner to censor other posts. If a
member doesn’t like it, they are always free to move on.

As Jon stated, “…cross posting links and information benefits
everyone…”. So, I guess I can’t
see a problem with reposting from another site.
Of course, if a site has a copyright on the information that’s posted by
members that would be a different story. FWIW, I don’t know why a member would ever
post to a site that then owned their post.
I never reposted on the sites I ran.
If I did I would certainly reference my source.

With most forums the expertise of an individual poster is not
widely known. The members generally have
to evaluate a response to their post for the level of expertise or knowledge being
given them. This forum is no
exception. I’m confident many mechanical
responses are given by members that aren’t certified mechanics. I know there have been responses that aren’t
accurate; again, that’s just what should be expected in these community
forums. I’m a member of both PC and POG
(I didn’t know PC existed last May when I joined POG). When I have a technical question I tend to
post it here. Even though not all of my
questions have received answers, I generally will get a better answer here than
there. Whether I renew my POG membership
is still up in the air. BTW, although I’m
not a member of Prevost Prouds I see that they too charge for membership. The best I can tell they are solely a social
group. I’m not encouraging Tom and Jon
to charge but rather pointing out that POG is not the only Prevost group
requiring a paid membership.

There are several Prevost focused groups out there and it
should be an individual’s decision where they want to hang out. Each group likely has a niche that satisfies
some.

As for this group, I would just like to thank Tom and Jon
for hosting it. Besides not supporting
the original iPad (just a delicate jab at Tom), this is a great site with a
membership that clearly has experienced members.

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I think the post got some attention at BCM. A good relationship can be had. I wish it for my part. Most of the members I know there would be glad to help any way they could. We even have one guy doing 3 slides in a XLII now. Best wishes to all. Bob

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I am so glad Bob sent me over hear right after the site when live. By the way, Bob is the only member I have met in person although I did recommend PC to a Prevost owner I met at a truck stop and he later joined.

I have received a bunch of very helpful information. I have owned my bus for 5 years now and this past year has been the most challenging. This Prevost Community has helped tremendously. Thanks guys. I appreciate your willingness to patiently share your knowledge and experience.

DKO

[Ken]

Perhaps Tom and I need to keep everyone aware of our objectives with PC.

First, let me give some history. When I bought my first coach in 1990 there was no internet as we know it and the only way to learn about Prevost conversions or meet other owners was to belong to FMCA and join the Prevost Proud chapter. It was a great opportunity for owners because as the only Prevost group the Prouds put on pre-FMCA convention rallies and attendance at them was as high as 200 coaches.

Because of the significant number of Prevost owners and coaches in one spot (at the rallies) we owners had the opportunity to meet many other owners, mornings were usually very high quality seminars put on by Prevost and usually included suppliers such as Detroit Diesel, Allison, Michelin, etc. Converters all showed up with coaches for sale and their semis to do on the spot service and repairs. Prevost usually had a service facility nearby as well.

Afternoons and evenings were usually for socializing. The quality of information and support was unmatched because everyone that supports our coaches could justify the expense of being there because of the great number of coaches.

But all that changed when different social groups started being created. While the Prouds were still a factor their rallies were no longer 200 coaches strong. Other social groups which catered to various interests were formed and pretty soon there were many, many rallies, but none large enough to represent all the social groups or justify the support given to the earlier Prouds rallies.

Tom and I created PC to encompass all Prevost enthusiasts from all social groups and with diverse interests ranging from motorhome conversions, homebuilders and even entertainers. Our objective was and still is to be the common place for all owners to get technical information and support AND NOT TO COMPETE WITH THE VARIOUS SOCIAL GROUPS BUT TO SUPPLEMENT THEM.

Nothing has changed in our thinking or objectives. In fact we did not want to create PC. We asked if Prevost-Stuff could become the vehicle to accomplish what we hope to accomplish here, but the owner refused. He was not a Prevost owner but ran the site as a commercial venture so he did not understand how we as owners would benefit by having a site dedicated to the support of owners with information and the ability to share support. When he refused to do what we thought was needed we created PC.

As to the cost of membership, this site exists and is supported by our advertisers. We have a great bunch of well respected folks who pay us to place ads on this site and it is because of them that this site is able to succeed, Tom and I supported all costs initially, but now our advertisers make this site possible and we urge you to support them in any way possible.

With respect to censorship I will restate what has been discussed before. Open discussion is encouraged. We do not want the hot button topics discussed here because they add nothing and there are plenty of places elsewhere to discuss politics, gun control, religion, abortion, etc. We also will not tolerate attacks on members or nasty posts. This group is universally very pleasant to have on the site and while as Gil says sometimes members make posts that are incorrect, we try to make sure the net result of all threads is accuracy. But we still expect members to sort out fact from fiction.

We know members often belong to other groups. That makes sense because when you can socialize with other owners of your type conversion, or other people who like motorcycles, or who have any other interest that is great. If you want to cut and paste stuff from here go for it. It would be nice if you gave credit for the post or information to this site. If you want to have us provide links to your social group we will if we haven’t already. All we ask is your group link to us as well.

[John]

Cut and Paste from our site as an individual in certainly no
problem, but when a business does that with the sole intent of
bolstering there own site, that’s wrong. Nuff said, we all know
the story and thanks to Mark for bringing it to center stage.

The idea of a single big Rally was Jon’s right from the beginning
because he attended a few of those big events back in the day. I
still think it’s a great idea and would save the commercial folks a
ton of money by reducing the number of events they have to attend
annually. What could be better than PC, Prouds, POG, etc attending
one large venue like a fairground.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it will ever happen. The reason being
the various groups have no interest in that concept because as Jon
pointed out, they seem to think they will loose their base to some
other organization. Further, it would take some serious
participation from Prevost and that is unlikely as well. We have
discussed that concept many times. I can’t think of a better way to
promote the product and lifestyle on a large scale.

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Jon, Tom and the other folks involved.

I want to say thanks for starting this forum, taking the time to
answer questions and keeping the
focus on the technical side. If I knew you
guys well enough to joke around I’d say, ” and I think some of the answers
are actually correct”. Seriously, thanks for making someone with an old conversion feel welcome.

Ken