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Plumbing leak under vanity
We’re under the forward vanity of a two vanity Liberty XLV.
You’ll see a brass plug in a tee in the middle of the plastic. This tee was for the water supply to ice maker. Following an apparent water leak I come to this tee that had a shutoff valve and compression fitting to a plastic line to the refrigerator. Unsure of the source of the leak (valve? tee? I suspected the tee.) I removed the tee and put the brass pipe plug in the branch of the tee. Tightened it down, still leaking. So I’m now suspecting the branch of the tee.
So … I loosened all the threaded fitting thinking I could remove the tee and replace it. Each connection is threaded … shut off valve, tee’s, elbows, etc. But I can’t seem to pull them apart. What am I missing here? What kind of plastic plumbing is this? 1999 conversion, so its probably 20 years old.
Of course this is going on while Cathie’s son and DIL are living in the coach until we head south in nine days.
BTW trying to work under the vanity is the most uncomfortable, awkward place I’ve crawled into in a long time.Thanks for your help.
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24 Replies
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Every time I’ve tried to use brass and plastic, it always leaks.
I don’t remember the name for the grey plastic, maybe Jeff will jump in here, but if I recall replacing it with the same stuff was unobtainable… If it’s Pex, you can get some of those fittings at the Depot or else use Sharkbite. Jeff?
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Thanks for the quick response from Tom.
I posted my predicament on the Garage Journal Forum. One of the members posted that it might be Flair-It fittings. I found their website and watched a couple of U-Tube videos. From what I can see of my fittings, it looks like Flair-It and I should be able to pull the tubing out of the fittings and replace the offending tee or just eliminate the line to the ice maker for now so I can turn on the plumbing. But given the location of where the fittings are that I need to separate I’m having trouble getting enough leverage. I’ll hit it again in the morning.
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Flair it is the brand of those fittings…sometimes you can find them at a hardware store….however it is 1/2 pex and you can get the quick connect that all the box stores have(shark bite)
2025 Marathon H3 / 4th Prevost
21 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4 -
I replaced that exact Flair-it fitting 3 weeks ago. The 1/8 NPT was split. Maybe over tightening the brass valve or it was bumped. I had enough slack in the 1/2″ pex to simply cut the pex at the end of the old T fitting. ACE hardware had the exact replacement Flair-it T fitting and 1/2 pex tubing. If you do not have enough slack to cut the tubing you can use a hair dryer to warm it up a little then you can wiggle the pieces apart. The hair dryer helps when installing the new T. You can also replace the T with a straight Flair-it splice if you never plan to use the frig water supply. Working inside those cabinets gets more difficult every year!
Roger
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Fixed, I’m pretty sure. As soon as the Tylenol kicks in, I’ll post something with a picture. Thanks for all the posts.
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I keep two old beat up pillows in the garage to prop me up and take off the sharp edges when working under cabinets or similar fun places. The problem is that I forget about them until I’m extremely uncomfortable and then just gut it out to finish the job instead of getting the pillows….
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As suggested by Jeff and Roger, the fittings are “Flair-It”. They are plastic fittings that were used on appears to be PEX tubing in the coach. One advantage of the Flair-It fitting is that they can be unscrewed and taken apart by hand (with some effort).
I’m lucky. Our local ACE Hardware while having lots of stuff is not often well stocked, is kind of dirty for being in a building that was remodeled for the HW store less than 15 years ago, etc. actually had a display of Flair-It fittings. But they might be planning on phasing out Flair-It as they were out of lots of the fittings. Thankfully they had a FLAIR-IT ICE MAKER TEE 10 100
1/2” X 1/2” X 1/8” FPT which I could use. I would have preferred just a FLAIR-IT PLUG COUPLING 1/2” as we don’t use the ice maker. But I used the tee and put a brass plug in it. I also bought the FLAIR-IT WRENCH 1/2” X 3/8”, probably not necessary, but now I have one. Makes loosening tight fittings in an awkward place easy.I’ve attached two pictures of the leaking tee. Two cracks, one on the left is larger, one on right is smaller. With the leaking tee still in place before removal, I really couldn’t see the crack, but it leaked. So I put in an 1/8″ MIPT brass plug and while tightening it the plastic cracked a second time. Is the plastic brittle due to age? Hmmmmm. So I suspect the smaller crack is the original crack.
At this point I couldn’t get the tubing off the fittings. So I searched a few YouTube videos, got some posts here and on the Garage Journal Forum about using heat and rocking the fitting and tubing back and forth. Got the heat gun out (actually a hair dryer would have sufficed), put a little heat on the tubing, rocked, and they came apart. Let me tell you guys … there isn’t much room in that lavatory cabinet for yourself, some simple tools, a light, and the heat gun!
Then I carefully put the brass plug in the branch of the tee using Teflon tape careful not to tighten too much. Put it all back together and used the Flair-It tool to tighten the connections.
BUT!!! I tightened one of the nuts TOO much and cracked it. Luckily I had a nut from the cracked tee and was able to pull the tubing out of the fitting, put a different nut on it, and then put the tubing onto the fitting. The PEX (I think) tubing came out with a “flair” on the end and I initially had trouble getting the cap over the flair. Again heat was my friend. Warm the PEX up a little and I could easily get the cap by the flair at the end.
From this point on I was wary of the tool, I held it close to the head which limited my leverage. Prior to obtaining the tool I could loosen most of the fittings by hand with some effort, some I needed to use a water pump pliers.
So far so good. It appears to be holding water at this point.
How did I know I had a leak when the fitting is behind a panel, under the lavatory sink? I had water coming from the holes in the bottom of the water bay onto the driveway concrete. Jeff Rowe has told me I should NEVER have water in the water bay (this could lead to replacing the floor of the water water bay. I watched Jeff’s guys do that. Not pretty, not a cheap date.). Previous time I had water on the floor/bottom of the water bay I had leaking water heater. This time I discovered water dripping from the pipes high in the bay, connections were tight, and I saw evidence of water from above (i.e. inside of coach!).
This sent me under the two lavatory sinks and attempting to look under the shower. Shortly after we bought the coach, we had water on the carpet in the stateroom. That time I traced the problem to the Flair-It connections under the aft lavatory sink. I could tighten some of the connections with my fingers and the leaking stopped.
This time all the connections in the aft lav sink were finger tight, so I headed to the forward lav sink. Those were finger tight … but I could eventually see water coming from the ice maker branch on the tee.
If you have to perform the fix I did, be very careful using the Flair-It tool to tighten the threaded caps/nuts on the fittings. Why did mine crack? Too tight? Brittle after 20 years? I don’t know.
Why did the branch of the tee crack? Age? Too much flexing after 121,000 miles? The tubing to the ice marker looks like is lightweight DOT air lines. Maybe the plumbers on the forum who have had experience with Flair-It fittings or the engineers will comment. Maybe Jeff has an opinion, Jon probably has one.
I’m going to look for a straight coupling to carry with my spares and tools.
If you have an older Liberty and an ice maker, I would expect its plumbed the same way. Given that two of these ice maker tees have failed in three months of each other on 20+ old Liberties, I would recommend replacing the tee proactively.
If you’re the kind of Prevost owner who feels that the keys, a credit card, and Jeff Rowe’s phone number is a complete tool box, I’d be more than happy to replace yours if we cross paths sometime … especially if its already leaking.
PS: Les … I just take a large bath towel out of the closet, roll it up, and lay on that. I still got bruises. The day after this project, I had my annual physical. The doctor (new to me) asked if I’d been in a car accident? NO. Had I’d fallen? NO. Did I feel “safe” at home? YES! After explaining my project and where I had to work, she went on with the exam.
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“Did I feel “safe” at home?”
I never, ever, feel safe at home when I’m working in the shop. Of course I have band-aids easily accessible in the tool box…
Cuts, scrapes and bruises are just part of the deal.
Good job, Dick. You taught us a lot about the fittings.
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The water shut off valves are also a weak spot. I had one in my 2011 blow out while going down the road. The handle actually blew out of the valve and we had hot water running out on the kitchen floor. I had all of them replaced next time I was at Jeff’s. They are really cheaply made and not too strong.
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Doesn’t Liberty have a shut off at the water bay manifold, direct from the water source?
Not just a shut off under a cabinet?
Later
bv
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Bernie, the answer is yes but it is on the inlet side of the pump.
If I found water flooding the coach as Mark did, step one would be to turn off the water pump switch. I can get to that faster than anything, but it is just a start. My second step would be to open the nearest faucet to full flow so whatever pressure remains is bled off quickly and the water flowing into a sink beats the water flowing onto the floor.
Remember even if you move with lightning speed to get out of the coach you have to open the bay door, and then open the pretty stainless steel door behind the bay door before you can get at any valve. And if you get the valve closed the accumulator tank is still pushing water unless you did as suggested above to dump it down the drain and not on the floor..
While this has the potential to lead to a few jabs against Liberty, there is one thing I have mentioned previously that all owners should do and that is to have a plan of action to deal with issues. The obvious ones are things like alternator failure or failed inverter or any other potential failure. But as seemingly rare as water leak might appear to be, owners probably should have a plan to kill the flow of water if a leak is found. Obviously a drip type leak is not a crisis but does have to be addressed, and a full flow leak such as a valve blowing apart requires very fast response.
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Ok A1, were plumbed different. If we shut off the valve at the manifold it’s dead. Only whats in the line could leak out .
The pump feeds the manifold.
Later
bv
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Just curious if you have an accumulator tank, and if so how and where is it plumbed because when you want water flow to stop instantly, that is one device that will continue to deliver water until its contents is gone.
If I am correct, to turn off the water manifold you have to go outside and access it behind a bay door which isn’t much different than on a Liberty.
Apart from the pretty stainless steel door behind the door slowing access, I think turning a big 90 degree water valve would be a little better than trying to read labels on a manifold when wearing bifocals so I knew I had the right one shut off.
Bottom line, it sounds like if there is a big water leak inside the coach, we are all going to be dealing with a lot of water before we can get it shut down.
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It’s acummulator, pump, manifold.
Have you found your accumulator yet.
I’m not arguing about what is better, I know what is. Just access to work on something if it leaks.
My original question was more to Dick than Mark. If you don’t have time to fix it and have to go why can’t you just go to the manifold and turn off the ice maker valve.
If it’s a major leak there are to many scenarios to discuss to get one answer.
Later
bv
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Bernie, Liberty does not have a manifold like Legendary and Marathon and maybe others do. They rely on under counter valves, which are not easy to get to and are almost always behind a panel. Plus like Jon said, the accumulator tank will keep the flow going for a bit even when the pump is shut off. When our 2011 blew that valve, I had Kristi shut off the pump and turn on the faucet in the sink and it still took a bit to get the water to stop running out under the sink.
The manifold is a better idea if you are stopped, but no help if driving.
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