[Archived]

Would like to hear more about these systems. Something else i can google to death in My spare time I guess !

[Chuck & Katrina]

Sure, a prestart oil priming system would reduce some wear but would it really extend the life of the engine?

I’m not aware of any S60 prematurely worn out in RV service. I have 173k miles on our S60 and oil pressure is 50 psi on the road and 30 psi at hot idle. No smoking or noticeable blow-by. No obvious indications of wear.

It seems in truck applications, the first thing to go on an S60 is the bull gear around 500k – 700k miles. I don’t expect this to be a problem in RV applications.

If you are concerned about wear, the best thing you can do for your engine is

(1) to turn on the block heater below 40 deg F for several hours or overnight and

(2) make sure your air filter is not compromised and your pre-turbo inlet ducting does not leak. Dust can ruin a diesel engine in no time.

I think bypass filtration is great on a trans-ocean trawler or mission critical generator applications where the engine runs for weeks without shutdown. For trucks and coaches an oil and filter change every so often is all that is needed and replaces wear additives as well.

Gerald

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2000 Featherlite H3-45

2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Leesburg, FL

[Archived]

IMHO…engine oil products have come a long long way. With the way we use our bus it would be a very tough sell to have that system (dry start-up ) added to our engine.

Dry start products are used and needed in many specialized applications. A much less money system you can do is switch to full sync engine oil. This by itself is used in many cold weather applications because of its product benefits.

By pass oil systems are another topic. Most used in applications where engine shut down time is not really a choice. Examples tug boats, river barge pushers. Some engines like these never shut down and change oil while running.

Keep in mine any accessory added to a running engine can fail, fall off, adding a problem.

As Jon and Truk beat into our head …pre check everything and stop while driving and look at your equipment.

Truk’s engine repair was a very small oil leak. We actually talked about how many owners would actually do anything about it. That was the clue of a problem that was beginning.

What Truk’s actually had Detroit Diesel look at was found to be more serious then a small oil leak and that began as a mileage due valve clearance check.

[Archived]

al,

And all – thanks for the responses:

ill definetly be using full synthetic in the future regardless – I switch every vehicle to syn at my first oil change. I thought this was interesting because as my bus will get started once a month out of season. –

as as far as thebypass oil filter: I realize it may be overkill. Was just wondering if anyone out there had upgraded and had the oil analysis info to show if it really seemed worth it. ( and stand behind the cost associated)

And all my air filters are brand new. – so I have that covered thanks 🙂

[Jeff]

Mike, I hope you are planning to do more than just start it once a month out of season? Geo.

[Ron]

Why?

Unless the starting involves a full coach exercise like a 50 mile run to get everything up to full temperature and to drive out the condensation associated with start up and idling with no load I would not even bother with any engine start up until the coach is going to be used.

[Archived]

I wish there was a delay in the DDEC so that when starting the engine wouldn’t fire until oil pressure had been built up for a second or two or three … long enough to ensure that oil was flowing to all the many bearings in the engine. Startup until oil is circulating is where there must be wear. Today’s synthetic oils provide good to great lubrication protection at lower temps than did the old dinosaur oil did.

I always spin the race car engine with the starter until I have oil pressure before I lite it off with the ignition switch; even after preheating the oil and priming the engine with a drill in the oil pump.

[Archived]

I don’t understand why spinning the engine without it running is somehow better than starting it and allowing it to run at low idle.

What is the theory or where is it recommended. Based on the number of engine failures that have ever been posted my guess is we have no problems requiring pre-lube or any special handling. I am not aware of any Prevost owner wearing out his engine.

[Archived]

Spinning the engine without firing allows the oil pump to pump oil from the pan up through the oil galleys and onto all the bearing surfaces. As the rotating assembly goes around the various holes in the system are uncovered and oil flows to all the necessary nooks and crannies which allows all the bearing surfaces to be lubricated before the stresses of combusion and higher RPM are introduced to those bearing surfaces before they are properly lubricated.

I’ll concede that the amount of time an unprimed engine is run before full oil pressure lubricates the bearing surfaces is awfully short, none the less there is a period of time without adequate lubrication.

Another way to help protect the engine is to wait until you have warmed the engine up before you pull a load on it. The coach weighs around 25 tons or more with the toad. If you don’t allow the engine to reach a reasonable operating temperature before driving away and putting a significant load on the engine (like spending the night in an Interstate rest stop, firing up in the morning, and then with a relatively cold engine using full throttle to get the coach up to 60mph) the engine will be subject to unnessary wear and tear.

[Les]

My coach sits from the end of October until late April and rarely, if ever, gets started. I have no reason to do so. If I want to air it up, I have a compressor in the garage that works for that just fine. As long as the oil is clean when you park it, I can find no reason to start it periodically.

[Larry & Diane]

I park mine for three months with clean oil and never start it and it’s all good unless I drive it to town and back 30 miles and have never had a problem , I would never start it unless I was going to drive it to town to get all the condensation out of the motor when you start it ,

[Hisham]

I didn’t mean “just start it”. I just meant I won’t run it more than once a month this time a year. Last week I had to drive it to the DMV- that’s 16 mikes away, and it idled while in the inspection lane so it received some exercise. I’ll do something similar next month ( but steer clear of the dmv for sure!)

i always make sure the generator gets good exercise at least once a month as well with a full load. – that is actually tough to do on a 20kw!!

[Archived]

I’ve run “engine oil bypass filtration systems” on 2 of our daily drivers and 3 of our MHs. I’ve been running a Topdog V bypass system, http://www.paretopoint.com/ , on my gasoline powered daily driver for 6+ years & 110k miles. It doesn’t use any oil and hasn’t given me any problem. I think of bypass systems like insurance, if something goes wrong, your covered(somewhat).

I also do “used oil analysis”. This is key to me to let me know stuff like: how long I can extend the oil change interval, or when something is wrong, like a bad injector, bad sensor, induction leak, etc. To date I’ve never had an issue with any of my MHs. All my used oil analysis have come back “good to go”. I’ve sent an oil sample to both Blackstone Labs and Oil Analyzers Inc/Polaris Lab. The results were the same, but Oil Analyzers recommendation was much more conservative, so that’s who I use. Cost me $27, and for that I also get all the normal stuff plus TBN, nitration, and oxidation #s.

On our Prevost w/DD 60s, instead a piecing together a independent bypass system like I’ve done with 3 of our past MHs that had M11 & ISM Cummins, I’m running dual Fleetguard # LF9620 ventruri combination full-flow & bypass spin-on filters. This type of filter does the job of both full flow & a bypass filters.

Here’s a good Cummins filtration(Fleetguard) pdf file on many of their lube filtration products.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/LT32599_03_0.pdf

Its been a while since I’ve checked, but Fleetguard & Baldwin were the only 2 companies with this sort of technology and they don’t make them for many applications.

I think if there was wear occurring at startup due to lack of oil pressure it would show up in the used oil analysis.

Soon I’ll go out and take some pics of the bypass system on my daily driver.

Here’s a link to some pics of the first system I pieced together on one of our MHs.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=1226

[Archived]

According to the Detroit Diesel manual, starting for the first time or after storage, there is no mention of pre-lubricating the engine. However there is substantial emphasis on clean crankcase oil and clean fuel.

I does specify to run at idle for 4 or five minutes after start and before applying heavy loads.

[Jerry]

lone star,

thanks – great idea. I was unaware of a “better” spin on filter for the DD60. I like the idea of no new hoses (leaks/ places to worry about) yet adding a little better protection / filtration.

Great info on the oil analysis – I had been looking at these and trying to decide who to use.

Interestingly on the centrifugal filters. They call for a operating temp of 230 degrees. Obviously these are really for other applications than our engines (ever check out videos on making / filtering your own bio diesel – these filters are what the use and heat the fluid to get maximum removal of contaminants)

Thanks John (pc god father) – I definetly don’t pull away prior to warm up – although I had started to load the generator as soon as it comes off high idle, of course now that I say that – that was how I used my onan. I can’t say I have heard my Kohler do the same…. will have to make sure I listen for that.

have a great weekend all!