[Greg]

Jeremy,

Welcome
to PC, you found the right place for information and you might even
get a few good answers.

Angola
did a good job and the late 90’s was just about as good as you could
get with the XL’s. The systems are simple and easily maintained and
operated. I’m on my 5th bus and will offer a few comments and
hopefully won’t discourage you on this Angola, but 13K miles is scary
no matter what the history. In aviation, we call them hanger queens.
I would much rather have a bus with 150K rather than 13K. The
inactivity is what causes systems and components to fail.

Your
big ticket items are going to be tires, batteries, air bags, norgren
valves, shocks, wheel seals, brake components and a whole host of
other items that fail or deteriorate over time due to lack of use,
especially rubber components. You will have an engine and
transmission that could have issues from sitting and condensation
causes rust. Starting it once a month and running the engine thinking
it’s doing good is false. Driving and getting everything up to
temperature is what’s needed and not for just a few miles, but a good
50 or 100 mile run.

Others
may disagree in all this negative, but that’s the way I see it. If
you move forward, you need a really good PDI and the place for that
is Prevost. Keep us posted and ask lots of questions, the folks on
this forum have a wealth of knowledge.

[Karl]

Welcome ! Some of the Angola crew is still working at Panterra Coach in Angola Indiana. Don is the man with the most history and might be worth contacting about the specific coach you are looking at or Angola design questions. He did a remodel on my coach and is very knowledgeable.

[Archived]

I would say if you have a good knowledgable PDI and you can get it a good price and willing to replace expired compoenets and after that the price is still good and you like it, go for it. Jon can probably come up with a dollar amount for what those compoenets will cost you, so you have a bargining amount to deal with. If you can turn a wrench, which it sounds like, and enjoy it that part of the hobby. If you are wanting to jump in it and drive across country soon move on and look for a coach with a converter guarranty.

What part of the country are you residing?

[Larry & Diane]

Jeremy,

Use the articles section of this web site to get a sense of how to go about selecting a coach, inspecting a coach, maintaining a coach and generally understanding what Prevost ownership is all about.

We could fill pages with suggestions about what you should buy and how you should spend your money, but the bottom line is the more up front effort you make to define the coach you need the more satisfied you are going to be. Read the posts and you will get a sense of the importance of preparation. Definiing the coach that is going to work best for you is the critical first step. That narrows the field. Buying the coach is significantly more complex than taking a test drive. If this is to be your first Prevost the most important thing you can do is a detailed inspection / training session. Far too many owners neglect this step, or fail to comprehend all they need to know before driving away for the first time with predictable and often expensive results.

This site has more Prevost owners and enthusiasts than anywhere else so ask all the questions you have. Your questions will not only generate answers that help you, but will also help those who are reading, but not participating in the conversations.

While I can understand how a 13,000 mile coach seems like a great opportunity, (for example) I would do a very comprehensive inspection including a search of its history from new. I would feel more comfortable if it had 130,000 miles.

[Archived]

Jeremy, ditto to Jon and Tom. New buyers frequently make the mistake of being in used car or light truck mode and look for low mileage and gen-set hours. Big mistake! When we were looking for our first Prevost, we turned down a coach of the same year with 2 slides for the same $ solely because the miles were too low(32,000)for the year coach. We will always look for at least 8000 mi. per year. An estimate from a Prevost service center on what a sitter needs will demonstrate what happens when these things sit. The same thing applies to the gen-set. We use ours alot, but if there is a break more than 3 weeks, as Tom said, a no-destination 50+ mi run is in order. Because many of us go from plug in to plug in, if we have not used the gen-set much, we will run it loaded just to exercise it. Do not be afraid of gen-set hrs. The same applies to some extent to the wabasto. Being in a warm climate, we have to remember to run it even though its 90deg, so its there when we need it. We’ll never be in a new or 1-4 yr old coach, but we would never consider a low mileage sitter even if the price was attractive, just because of the constant one or two at a time niggling repairs even after the big stuff has been taken care of. Good luck in your search, take your time and ask all the questions you need to. You are in the right place! Welcome aboard.

[Jeremy]

Welcome I have a 1997 I bought it with 180000 miles on it I drive 1000 miles a week battery’s over night for two nights run gen at night 2 hours and in morning sometimes I have power for the other nights the auto start works good when camped with no power there are lots of things to be aware of it wood not scare me to buy one with 300000 miles on it I have replace air bags new battery’s starter gen air bags rebuilt aqua hot I have not added it up but I have spent about 50000 on it Mine rock and rolls done road it is in the best shape mechanically and on the converter side why because I use it and it was in good shape when I bought it but I am way to anal I put new toilet in at 2000 dollars just for example plus rebuilt aqua hot for about 1500 dollars so check things out good Good luck

[Bryan]

Wow! Thank you all for your responses. I didn’t expect so many so fast… This is better than the Porsche site I frequent 🙂

So, if I can summarize what I read… pretty much everyone warned and some said stay away from a coach of this age with 13k miles. I understand the logic… I own a boat, and while not nearly as complicated, the same lessons apply… It must be used or things start to deteriorate quickly.

At this point, I have inquiries out for quotes on storage, insurance, etc. If those don’t come back satisfactory, the deal ends there. If there are reasonable rates, I think it warrants more research into this particular coach. While we want to spend a lot of time (if not most) on the road, we will not do that for probably another 3-5 years.

I intend to take the recommendations here and have a thorough PDI done… investigate the records. If there is evidence that the coach was used lightly but run 50-100 miles down the road every month, and the maintenance looks recurrent and thorough, I can’t say that I will run away. However, I agree, if things looks spotty or if the dealer can’t prove things that need replacing have been replaced we will walk and keep looking.

To answer a couple of questions: Yes, I am comfortable with some DIY work and actually have shop space to do it, but I imagine I lack the tools to do some of the bigger jobs… Are 3/8″ and 1/2″ drive sockets big enough? 😉 Also, we are located in Tampa, FL. I think that is in my profile but realize that it didn’t translate to my sig.

I will post back when I learn more and keep everyone updated on what we find and how we choose to proceed…

Thanks!

Jeremy

[Archived]

Jeremy,

A low mileage coach that has some years on may not be a deal breaker, but as Corey or George said you may find yourself addressing issues. For example, rubber ages. It seems to age better when exercised than when static so you can expect things whose function relies on rubber components to possibly be an issue. That could include Norgren valves in the suspension, air bags, certainly tires, and maybe even some plumbing components.

I would also have concerns about corrosion. including surface rust on the cylinder liners of the engine and generator. I would seriously question its use. If the coach was parked at an RV resort and used its entire live as a stationary second home a lot of things can be worn out even though it wasn’t driven.

But do not rule it out, just decide if you are willing to accept some risk and if so, how much to allow financially.

Depending on the value of the coach insurance can run from approximately $1500 to $4000 with mid to late 90s coaches at the low end of the range. Storage is something driven by the local market.

A pre-purchase inspection before money changes hands is a must. I would presume you and the buyer would negotiate price based on your knowledge of the coach. That imposes a burden on you to do your homework as to market values, and it imposes on the buyer a duty to reveal what he knows about things that don’t work or need attention. Your inspection is nothing more than a confirmation the buyer has accurately represented the coach. Things like doing a full maintenance, repairs, replacement of life limited components such as tires and batteries is all part of your negotiations. If in your excitement to get behind the wheel and head on down the road you neglect to inspect and learn you could face some unplanned and surprise expenses. And there is nothing much worse than a brand new owner facing problems. The owner does not know if the problem is something he caused, or if it existed, he has a limited source of supports such as people he will later rely on to perform maintenance, and he has yet to develop a network of forum friends who know the converter and can offer very sound advice. So in your inspection if you have not worked something, or you do not have paperwork for maintenance, or you are being told “oh that is an easy fix” assume it doesn’t work, wasn’t maintained and the fix is not easy and it is expensive.

I do almost 100% of my work and on very rare occasion will I need larger than 1/2″ sockets. You might need larger combination wrenches, and if you will change your own wheels you need a 1″ impact wrench, but other than that tools likely in your tool box will work.

In your investigation keep in mind the purchase price is the start of the expenses and especially with a coach new to you allow some extra cash to take care of things you may want to upgrade, or for the early repairs, or just to get the coach tweaked to your satisfaction. After the initial expenses you can probably budget for 6 to 7 MPG, and about 50% more to cover maintenance, tires, batteries, etc.

[Archived]

Jeremy, you are and will continue to recieve great input here. We are close to you (Bradenton) and whatever you don’t or want to do yourself, you have one of the best resources around with Ben Cummings and Rick May at Parliament Coach in Clearwater. Except for an emergency on the road, They or Prevost are the only ones to touch our coach.

[Archived]

Jeremy, I was where you are a couple of months ago and will share my experience. I recently bought a very low mileage but older MCI bus. Based on advice here and elsewhere I had the bus thoroughly checked out independently by the MCI service center, including everything they could think to check on a bus which had plainly not been used enough. After getting a clean bill of health (and an offer to buy it from the shop manager) I went through with the deal, but the price I paid still took the non-use into account. Also, in recognition of possible non-use problems cropping up I was able to get the dealer to give me a short bumper to bumper warranty,and that has saved me a lot of money because issues have cropped up with air conditioners. If you decide to buy the bus and can’t get some sort of warranty, you should plan on keeping a cash reserve for fixing unexpected issues (but that is probably true of all buses).

Only time will tell whether I made a dumb decision, but at least I made an informed decision.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

p.s.: While everyone on this site knows that miles are more the friend than enemy of a bus chassis, I heard no end of concerns from potential buyers when I sold my 1990 Prevost with 250k miles on the chassis and 9000 hours on the generator. When it comes to resale value, many buyers are just not informed and will be looking for a low mileage coach.

[Peter]

I don’t know why the general concensus seems to favor low generator hours and low mileage on the chassis.

That is not an opinion exclusive to Prevost buyers. Plane buyers drool when they hear of a 15 year old plane with 500 original hours. I suppose the same holds true for boats.

Our generators are extensively used by entertainer coach operators and it is common to find generators with 30,000 or more hours. Entertainer coaches with 600,000 and 800,000 miles are also common and instead of having to replace front end bushings at 50 to 100,000 miles as a lot of motorhome owners have done, it is likely front end bushings in a high mileage coach are going to see 500,000 miles of service.

When a coach is used regularly everything is being exercised, everything is being lubricated, the working components come up to temperature and moisture is driven out of anything that breathes including our engine. Tires lives are extended in terms of time when used because the chemicals that are released through flexing keep the rubber pliable and cracking is postponed. Obviously things wear out, but the mileages we usually see for used coaches indicates most of us will never outlive our coaches.

[Davy]

I doubt that a owner will let u take apart aqua hot but if you listen close you can hear if bearings are bad if it leaves black soot on ground it’s not working good and that can cost a lot of money. Tires and battery’s are just the cost of driving it and I would say lots of gen hours… no problem.

I don’t think driving it 50 to 100 miles a month is the key to a good coach…whether its a big truck or bus there are lots of things to look for. One that is being used regularly and kept in good working order is more beneficial than one that the owner has sitting in the shop messing around with little things.

[Archived]

Hi All,

Just a quick update. Jon was nice enough to email me back and forth a few times yesterday and provided more good insight on things to look out for. Also, thanks to George and Becky for suggesting I contact Don at Panterra. I did and he replied with good information not only on the history of Angola, but also on some of the things to look out for on the house side, like obsolete components that may not be directly replaceable as well as things that could fail due to lack of use. To Corey and George, maybe we’ll get to meet in the future. I am aware of Parliament Coach and have explored their website. I live fairly close to them and might stop by to check them out. It looks like they have a few nice used coaches for sale too.

Ultimately, after emailing with John about parking and storage and considering how little we may be able to use the coach in the near future, we have decided to pass on the Angola. It really was an issue of weighing our time commitments at home and in our present jobs vs how often we will be able to use the coach and what we will have to spend to insure and store it, not to mention any repairs that may be required.

A quick note on repairs, the dealer did offer to replace all of the tires and brakes as well as send the coach to the local Detroit shop for fluid flush and oil analysis. I think this was a reasonable offer and I would certainly entertain doing business with them in the future.

I think I’ll let this thread run its course now. Perhaps I can take part in other threads in my quest to educate myself for the future because eventually the time will be right and we will own a Prevost!

Thanks for the help!