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New to the forum…hello
Hi all, what a wonderful forum you have. A little background….I’ve owned 6 motorhomes, one B+, Super C, 3 class A diesels and most recently my 45′ Class 8 truck conversion (Dynamax 450UL Grand Sport) that I purchased new in 2010.
My wife and I are going to be spending 4- 6 months on the road and I have been researching Prevost for the last 3 months and am hoping to be a buyer by November / December before we hit the road. Although I love my coach, she wants something a bit more livable and comfortable if we are going to be on the road that long.
My search has led me to the XLII body style (personal preferrence) between a 2005-2008 model year. I would love to hear from folks on things I SHOULD be looking at/for when I choose a coach. I’ve only driven one prevost in the last 2 years and it was a 2003 Liberty that a friend we met at a campground owned. Wow! I wasn’t prepared for that quiet, smooth ride…..I was hooked. He wanted to drive my new truck conversion so we spent an afternoon driving each others coaches. I’ve picked his brain and spoke to MANY sales reps who, of course, have varying opinions. My friend was certainly biased toward Liberty.
I’m hoping a few folks here could weigh in on some of the comments I’ve been told from various sales people and give me the “owners” perspective. Again, these are not my opinions and I don’t intend to flame a fire here, especially on my first post, so please remember this is the feedback I’m being told from dealers, brokers ect….
I have not decided on which converter I’m going to focus on but one broker told me the following:
Liberty is the “rolls royce” of conversions and has been in business the longest. High quality materials throughout.
Marathon would be his second choice although in “his” opinion the older coaches are built better than the new one’s.
Although out of business, Royale had a very well put together coach with ease of use for the owners. He personally likes Royalebecause of the “bang for the buck”.
Country coach build quality is not “great” and they did have electrical issues in the past. He’s seen very nice ones and not so nice one’s.
Stay away from Parliament / American (not recommended) low resale value.
No first hand knowledge of Thompson and Millenium.
He finished by telling me that you really need to see and spend time with the coach you may choose and you get what you pay for….kinda funny since they are all $450K – 750K+ in the years I am looking at..is there really that much difference between converters?
I’ve read the thread here about the delamination issues as well as a host of other informative items and I’m at that point where I better accelarate my learning curve since someone very serious is coming to look at my Dynamax on Sunday and I can’t imagine living long without a coach….Again, thanks for offering such a great place and thank you to those who take the time to teach a bit to a newbie.
Jim
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27 Replies
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Asking about which converter is the best is like asking a parent who has the best children. I’d suggest that if you can sift through the opinions, that you look at this from a bit different perspective. First, you’ve decided on a Prevost so from a chassis perspective you have nothing really comparable to look at. Okay, that’s my opinion, but one not likely disputed.
How well did the converter engineer their conversion? I’d suggest most did a pretty darn good job. So far I’d say the biggest differences appear to be in the AC and DC electrical systems. Even these differences are slight. An although I’m not a fan of running everything AC powered through inverters, the Vantare owners don’t seem to have a big problem with manually managing their AC loads. Another engineering concern I would have is weight distribution. There are a few coaches out there that are substantially over the weight limits established by Prevost.
Quality of construction is a big deal to me. Do the interiors fall apart? Are electrical wires well supported. Are theer a lot of creaks and squeaks going down the road. This is an area that is 100% contributable to the converter.
Most converters use the same or very similiar major systems, so here you are looking for support from the OEM and not necessarily the converter. Even if the converter is long gone, can you get support from the OEM?
The big one is converter proprietary systems converter modified systems and their support. Yes, Country Coach has a proprietary electrical management systems, much like Marathon has TechLink or the commercial equivalents to Crestron, Octoplex, and Intellitech systems. In the case of Country Coach, this is no longer supported however spares and expertise are still available from at least 2 sources. I suspect anyone that complains about Country Coach’s system rightfully complains about how it may have been hard to find support. Still, Country Coach makes a great conversion (my opinion).
Other things that you may want to consider are toilets and awnings. The air assisted electrica ZipDees seem to be very problematic. You will likely only find Girrards in the years you are looking. Some converters seemed to have a challenge locating black water tanks directly under the toilet. Therefore, they have air assisted high pressure toilets. These MAY be too loud if they are used when others are a sleep.
Given the model years you’re looking at and your budget, you should be able to find a great coach with little in compromises.
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Thank you Gil…..I truly appreciate all of the owners feedback and I certainly don’t want to begin a discussion about “who’s child is better”. I’ve read enough of the CAT vs. Cummins threads on the class A forums. I agree with your statement about the prevost chassis….that being said I need to really look at the converters, ease of maintenance, availability of maintenance, basement air, roof air, ect…..and what changes where made to the chassis between the model years 2005 and 2008.
I’m keeping my eye on 2 Liberty coaches, one marathon, one Royale and one Country Coach…these are the models that have floor plans that my wife likes. Our “deal” is I get to pick the converter and she gets to pick the coach floorplan. It also seems that Liberty coaches are quite a bit more $$ than say the Royale and the Country Coach…. and slightly more than Marathons of similiar years. Of course I don’t know if that is because the Liberty dealer in Florida prices the coaches higher to try and protect re-sale value BUT they are actually selling the coaches much less than advertised. I know they have a big push to have owners let them consign the coach to protect “percieved” value, since they actually write about this on the web site. Still, I ask the question why a 2005 Liberty is so much higher than similar years of other converters.
Maybe I’m making a bit much of this……but as I said I’m trying to learn and after all this will most likely be the second largest consumer purchase I will ever make.
Again, thanks for your help.
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I have a strong bias, proven by three coaches from Liberty, but I NEVER recommend a Liberty unless and until buyers actually decide what they want and need in a coach.
Start at the beginning by setting a budget, and that budget has to recognize if you do not buy the coach completely gone through and backed by the converter you need to set aside money to make sure it has fresh tires, batteries, and all maintenance events are current. You need to decide how you maintain the coach when setting aside the dollars. For example I change air bags when they are ten years old. There is nothing anywhere in the Prevost service manual that says that, but empirical evidence and personal experience have taught me that is about the end of their useful life. Same with most valves. Then there are coolant changes and transmission fluid changes that have a life span.
So bottom line is you must first establish your budget.
Then start creating a list of your wants and needs. Needs are the things that you will not do without. Wants are the things that you would like, but they are not deal breakers. We recently had a thread in which a potential buyer wants either the boxed roof mounted awmings, or manual awnings on an XLII. Either or, but anything else is the deal breaker. Some folks want a private toilet, or two sofas instead of a sofa and chair, or a table instead of a booth, etc. Some (like me) will not own a coach without whole bus air. And so there is no confusion, whole bus air to me is that installed by Prevost and which uses a big six cylinder compressor. Others do not need bus air, but they want roof airs. Some are OK with 3 some insist on four. Some want no slides, some want one slide, others want two slides. So you can see you have a lot of choices. I can say that there are no conversions I know of with bad systems. Gil talks about how Vantare sets its electric system up in a unique way, but that does not mean it isn’t a good reliable system.
Once you complete the exercise defining wants and needs, you may already find you have answered what converter builds a coach that most closely fits what you want. Every converter creates a coach with its own “personality” and some owners have selected their coach based on how those coaches present themselves. What is important to my wife and I may have no bearing on what you need. So we can all blather about how great our particular coach is, the real judge of the best coach for you is………..you.
Your friend with a Liberty sounds like a lot of Liberty owners because Liberty not only builds a great coach, they stand behind it in ways owners have really come to appreciate it. But if you and you wife are looking for a less complex coach for example, and especially one with a wood interior what we Liberty owners think means nothing because the coach for you is a Royale.
What questions you should be asking (and then sitting back and watching the dust fly) are the hard questions about why we owners like roof air or Cruiseairs, or ZipDee awnings versus Girard, or why the bed should go north/south instead of east/west, or if we need 365 tires, or whether an H3 is a better choice than an XLII.
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Over the road air is a great option if you have the choice in coaches you are looking at.
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Great feedbac Jon…..lots to think about.
I know we want 2 slides…..opposing sofa’s are nice especially when entertaining but 2 euro chairs would also work for us. 2 vanities (sinks) are a must, his and hers. I personally like a large shower…my coach now has a larger than normal shower and I’ve grown fond of being able to move without doing a pirouette. Funny but side windows in the bed slide is somewhat important because our oceanfront site in St. Augustine has great views while laying in the bed if you have the windows…..same in the salon. I hated the AC in my class A’s when driving (dash AC) and have become spoiled with the freightliner columbia air on the dash. It literally cools the entire coach without kicking on the roof airs when in transit so I guess I will look into the bus air. I didn’t particularly like the basement air in my Vectra and it really was a pain to service and never seemed to function that well when in really hot climates.
We have set our budget and it does give me some flexibility if we find the right coach….the low end is about $450K with the upper end nudging $600-625K. For years I’ve never been a believer in extended warranties so I’ve made it a habit to put $250 per month in my “maintenance fund” and it has grown to well over $10K. Tires, batteries, and a complete PM are things I am prepared to do if they need it. With all of my coaches, I take them in once per year for inspections…roof, aqua hot service, genny service, systems ect….although I enjoy doing simple things myself I leave most of the systems to the pro’s.
Although I’ve read the “delam” thread that worries me a bit but I guess inquiring if the coach has been inspected by prevost could put that to rest. I’m taking lots of notes my friends so please keep the thoughts coming.
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My search, I hope, is nearing an end. In a week, the buyer of my current coach will be here to pick it up and transfer funds. I’ve continued to read and search forums for information but trying to get people to even talk about thier prevost is like walking thru a mine field. The earlier comment about “asking someone about which converter is best is like asking what child is best” sure holds true. There is no denying that an ’06 Liberty and ’06 Marathon and an ’06 Royale all have HUGE price differences and if the “chassis” is all the same then the challenge is asking what are the differences and are they worth the difference.
Liberty is at the top of my list but anything over the ’05 model years are just out of my budget. (even the ’05 will stretch my budget to the upper ends)
Marathon is second and Royale is third.
Actually, any of these three converters would work for the wife and I. We’ve found floorplans with each converter that we like. I have noticed that all 3 of the ’06 Royales that have been listed for sale in the last 2 months are now sold. That is the one coach that every broker, salesperson, mechanic that I have talked to said it is a user friendly coach, not alot of frills but was put together very well. All of them also said they love getting them in because they are quick sales.
I’ve researched the basement air, roof air, bus air systems, electrical, plumbing ect….. I’ve got spreadsheets comparing side by side features of the coaches we have been looking at. We’ve set our budget between $450-550K. The one thing that has shocked me is the “list” prices and “sell” prices have HUGE disparity. For example, I looked at a 2005 Marathon (beautiful) that listed for $599K…..sold for $465K. It’s not uncommon to see the list and sell prices $100K apart but I’m getting most of the information from the sellers…so is it really more?
I’ve made contact with the folks at Liberty in Stuart Fl, some private owners and even one owner we met at a resort who will be selling his coach in November. It’s a very nice ’06 marathon, and at least 3 brokers who are looking for me. Any last minute purchase advice would be welcomed. My wife is going to travel from Michigan to Florida on the 12th to look at a few coaches…..sure wish there where some owners staying at resorts in Michigan that would be willing to let us look at thier coaches and discuss first hand their experience.
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jtmac, Here’s a thought. Put your purchase off for 60 days and attend either the POG rally or the PC rally or preferably both. The timing and geography are pretty good. You will meet and talk to more than a hundred owners of a huge variety of coachs. I have never met another owner who is not forthcomming and will go through his or her coach with you. Plus there will be sellers with coaches on hand and you will get to meet the good ones personally. Anyone looking to make the move to a Prevost and learn firsthand cannot afford to miss this oppurtunity.
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There is one very important thing to remember about pricing. A coach is only worth what someone will pay for it. You may not be willing to pay as much as I am willing on a particular coach because for me getting a coach with what I want is far more important than getting one cheap. I am not likely to flip a coach often so I have to live with it for a long time and buying one over another because it is cheap but not exactly what I want means I better grow to like it or I am going to be unhappy. The fact I will not consider a coach without OTR limits my choices.
I have learned however the practice of overpricing is driven by the fact some people do not sell their coaches outright before replacing it so when they trade the real value they are getting for their old coach is hidden by inflated numbers. Dealers have learned some people get really upset when they learn how much depreciation has impacted their trade in so it is easier to offer an inflated price. The net cost usually works out the same.
Having bought three coaches, one from a private owner, one from a dealer and one from a converter, hands down I would rather pay more to buy my coach from the converter than any other way. While the cost is greater the fact the coach is made perfect, there is a great deal of training and support, and then the converter stands behind it more than makes up for the difference in price. I say that having had coaches for 22 years when we bought the current one and even though I probably could handle most repairs if any were found to be needing, I knew I was starting out with a good coach and was not behind the curve.
When talking to owners keep in mind you need to understand people will be defensive of the coach they are dirving today. That is good. I am brand loyal like the next guy. But I also know my preference for Cruiseairs means I have to accept not only their benefits over roof airs, but their shortcomings. Based solely on how we use our coach they are my preference, but that may not be the case for others. So your questions have to dig deep and recognize nothing is perfect and nothing is junk. What is important is what is best for you based solely on how you intend to use the coach.
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Can’t tell you all how much I appreciate the feedback…..One of the reasons we are seriously considering an older Liberty is because we are buying it FROM liberty. The PDI includes: 8 new tires, 9 new batteries, complete diesel service, genny service, ect…..as well as a 90 day bumper to bumper. They are also suggesting we plan on spending 2-3 days hooked up in Stuart until we are comfortable with all the systems and how they work. I am putting a value on this quite high because it will be a relief to at least pull out of the lot with a thouroughly checked coach and a warranty.
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My wife and I spent just under 10 years living full-time in a coach, the last 6 of which were in our Liberty. We tended to spend 5 or 6 months ” stationary” on our lot at the Outdoors Resort in Port Saint Lucie, Florida and the remainder of the year traveling.
You are in for the time of your life as you spend months on the road in a Prevost bus. Our preference was for a Liberty Coach and, if you plan to spend a lot of time traveling in the southwest during the summer months, I highly recommend a bus with genuine Prevost OTR air conditioning.
Happy shopping and good luck with your search….
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Jim:
I was in your shoes six (6) months ago and your writings, questions, concerns, thoughts, were mine almost exactly. I took delivery of a coach from Liberty two months ago and can’t eco comments enough doing your research, and consider the choice to pay more and have a full PDI coach where the converter stands behind their product, service and reputation. I like you, considered many coaches and ultimately bought a ten (10) year old coach and wanted someone to stand behind the problems, issues and challenges i knew were coming.
We attended the Tampa show in January and it was there you could view each converter and make an assessment of the differences of quality, decorating taste, wants, needs and options. Attending the Branson Rally and / or POG Nashville function may be the BEST MONEY you spend in this process. The Tampa trip for me and my wife was…. It was in Tampa i learned the value of “bus air” or OTR and living in the south, it was an absolute “need.”
We have put 4,000 miles on our coach and I have spent a few nights on this site looking for help or on the phone with Liberty trouble shooting and working through varioius issues and trying to better understand systems, so the value to me is in a full PDI and being a member of this group…….
Patience is the virtue as you just go through the process to learn a specific coach, how all is set up, electrical demand, inverters, batteries, awnings, entertainment systems, etc. only then can you decide what is best for you.
Good luck on your search and attend one of these meets and go through the process and as Jon says – weigh your “needs” and “wants” carefully – as they will dictate your ultimate spend!!!Good luck!!
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Thanks for the suggestions about the OTR….it is on the Liberty we are looking at. I would LOVE to attend one of the rallies again for the POG…this time being a buyer. We’ve gone in the past but it was mainly to simply drool over the coaches and didn’t really think I would be buying one so soon. This is happening about 5 years sooner than I anticipated. My wife is recovering from cancer AND I have a 120 pound diabetic insulin dependent dog so without a coach, the rallies really become problematic logistically. My wife’s diagnosis is why we are just not waiting and taking the plunge early. Sold my companies last December, paid off all debts and ready to see the country.
I absolutely will be there in my new to me prevost this year or in the near future.
I’m really getting hung up on buying from a broker or individual owner because I know the support after the sale just isn’t going to be there. My wife is heading down to Naples with her sister on the 12th and planning a trip over to the Liberty dealer in stuart to get some “hands on” with the 2 coaches we like there. As I stated earlier, this decision is hers to make….I really want her to LOVE the coach and I KNOW I will love driving it. Both have OTR. As of today it is really between 3 coaches…2 liberty and one marathon. I’ll keep you all posted and hopefully by the middle of August we will have a picture to pop up under our name.
I own a site in St. Augustine right on the ocean so we will stop there on the way back to Michigan and get cozy with our choice while we are still in Florida and help isn’t too far away. After that we are hitting the road the day after Christmas spending 3 months at our site and 3 months traveling the south. Now if I can just stop my hand from shaking writing that big a check all will be fine……LOL
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Jim
My wife and I bought an XL2 from Marathon last 3 week never been so happy with the choice. Buying from the convertor as far as I am concerned is the best choice. They will not cut corners to save a dollar and lose future sales. I bought direct from Marathon 3 weeks ago and here I am in Oshkosh, WI watching the air show without having to worry about any issue with the coach. I had a couple of minor questions that Marathon responded to on their 24 hour line and got me going. Will be in Michigan upper peninsulas next week and on the the tri-county Wayne Oakland and macomb for two to three week to visit family and friends.
What ever choice you make I am sure you will ask all the questions you need answered from the dealer. I always said if the seller can’t answer the question about the product he is selling that is the guy you must stay away from.
Good luck.
Hisham
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Jim
I owned 7073a that is actually Liberty coach 586,a 2005XLII that they have for sale,if you are interested in that coach I can tell you that I know the history fron 2005 through June of 2008.I owned it for 1 year and it only had about 20,000 miles in 2008 when I purchased a new coach from them.If you have any interest in that coach I will be happy to discuss it with you.
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Jack,
Thanks so much for all your help. I enjoyed learning about the coach and it’s history. I think we can now safely make our decision.
Jim
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