[Bill]

DK,

Welcome to PC. We will answer every one of your questions, and on occasion we may actually provide a correct answer.

I have an observation about your post that I think others will echo. You are focussed on the age of the coach and how it will match your budget. There is no question we all buy our coaches based on our particular budgetary considerations, but unless there is a specific feature that newer coaches offer such as multi=plex wiring or adaptive braking, I don’t think age or miles matter much. I am not suggesting an older coach that has been rode hard and put away wet is going to be the equal of a newer coach that has been well maintained. I am saying that if you buy from one of the converters or some of the dealers you are likely to be unable to tell the difference from a 2002 or a 2008 coach.

To start you might want to search for all coaches listed in your price range. Keep in mind asking prices are just that and the actual selling price may be less. With an older coach you may wish to update some electronics, or refurbish the carpet or flooring, but that type of work is relatively inexpensive. A newer coach is still going to have a lot of depreciation, while the older coaches have substantially less. The market places a higher value on the newer coach but there are few of us here that are ever going to wear any of our coaches out. We may need to refresh them from time to time, but they are going to outlast us unless we are putting 80,000 miles on per year.

Unlike conventional motor homes our coaches were built on a chassis designed for many years and miles of commercial service. Our converters have installed time proven materials and systems so they are going to hold up well and continue to be very reliable and cosmetically acceptable for years to come. Bottom line, don’t worry if your budget puts you in an older conversion.

As to fair market value, nobody knows. If you have looked at listings for any length of time you will see a pattern begin to emerge that shows a particular conversion valued between $xxxx and $yyyy. You may also find dropping down a few years will have comparable coaches listed at a lesser price. After a while you begin to understand the asking price range. What is also important to understand however is there are so many factors that influence pricing in a very limited market it is impossible to create a “blue book” value. A well maintained coach with all the documentation is always going to bring a higher price than a poorly maintained coach, but even then the seller’s needs may influence the bottom line. Some sellers are going to owe money and cannot sell for less than they still owe. Some sellers know very clearly how well maintained their coach is, and have all the records so those coaches will always carry a higher value. A coach sold by the converter and backed by the converter is going to be a higher value than one sold by an individual in “as-is” condition with old tires and batteries.

As you pursue your coach all of this will become apparent. Your intentions are also going to influence your needs. If you tend to trade often you are likely to buy solely on price and not on features. You want to buy at a rock bottom price so when you flip it in a few years you won’t take a beating on depreciation. If you tend to keep your coaches for a long time, the price may be secondary to getting the features that are important to you.

There are not going to be any hard and fast rules or answers because buying a coach is such a personal decision.

[Wayne]

Double K, Welcome to PC. Been watching for you. The very best thing you can do in your search is ask questions here. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here and remember there is no such thing as a dumb question. We’ve all been there and we never stop learning from each other.

[Ron]

Welcome Double K, hope to see you posting often and good hunting.

[Tom]

DK,

There is space for you at Tampa at the end of this month. So come on down, unless you are in southern Florida already then come on up. Either way it will be a great experience for you to attend.

Oh and while I have the microphone, welcome to PC and let’s get those questions posted!

[Bill]

Hi Double K,

It seems you and I are interested in the same coach, an ’02 thru ’04 H3. It just so happens I have a deposit on an ’04 and am out of the market and won’t be offering any competition. 🙂 I’ve been watching Prevost prices on the used market for a long time. Everything Jon said is of course, true; nonetheless, I find it’s worthwhile to formulate a baseline value for an average coach of a given year and then apply Jon’s considerations as an overlay. There’s nothing wrong with taking a coach’s original list price and deriving a present day value based on some depreciation rate. From there you can make adjustments based on features, condition, service records, etc. I’ve had good success applying a basic model to the ’03/’04 model years. Most folks agree that new coaches depreciate enormously during the first 3 years. One model is that new coaches can lose half their list value in 3 years, and then 10% per year for the next 7 years. Other’s have suggested that a coach loses half it’s value in the first 5 years then another half in the next 5 years. Either way a 10 year old coach is worth about one quarter of its new list price. For example, if you’re looking at an ’04 Marathon that originally listed for $1.4M then today a fair starting point negotiation, based on these models, would be $350K. What I’ve seen after looking and lurking for 10 years, is that this model is pretty close; however, you’ll see dealers advertise considerably higher than these values. Today there are many ’04’s being marketed by dealers at $425K plus. What’s true is that a dealer will do a PDI and they will fix items and even sink considerable money into tires, batteries and other expenditures. For this benefit buyers pay quite a premium in price. Contrast this to your typical as-is private sale where the seller doesn’t offer much in the way of fixes, and you can see how buying from a private seller may result in a lower transaction price. Whichever is the better deal depends upon you. Being hands on and experienced with Class-A motorhomes enables one to find the gem’s in the as-is market and to benefit from a lower transaction price.

[Archived]

Double K,

I recently purchased a 2007 H after about a 3 year search… if I can be of any help… post here or contact me directly Bill@fogartyservices or 314-956-9336

Bill

[Corey]

David,

You sly devil, when are we going to get the skinny on the H?

[Archived]

There is a beautiful H3 at http://www.hoffmancoach.com. That is where I found my 91 model and was able to deal with the owner and got a great deal.

Tom Hamrick

[Archived]

I want to comment on David’s previous post.

I agree with David that a private sale is likely to be the least expensive way to buy a coach. An astute buyer can find some very good deals if he is patient and has the skills to deal with an inspection.

I would suggest however that a novice with no experience in motor homes of this caliber is going to be at risk. By the time a coach reaches its tenth birthday it can be a money pit for the unsuspecting buyer that isn’t prepared to handle a lot of the things that are typically needed at that age. If the coach has not been well maintained it takes the risk the buyer is exposed to up to a new and much higher level.

David is what I would consider a qualified buyer. He has done his homework, he appears to fully understand how to evaluate a coach and I suspect he is mechanically adept. He seems to be in a position to not only evaluate a coach, but also to deal with the needs of an older coach, such as air bags or brake chambers. Obvious items like batteries and tires are easy to check. Not so obvious are the things that can frustrate a buyer such as the leans, or a faulty AquaHot, or air leaks.

From my perspective the market seems to be shifting to a sellers market. That means prices are firming up, and good coaches are going to command higher prices. What scares me about that is “bargains” may be few and far between and some of those may be cheap because of hidden issues.

All buyers have to understand that they have the responsibility to inspect and verify the condition of a coach and while we all want to pay a low price, sometimes there is a large value in peace of mind and that can come from a purchase from a converter who will stand behind the coach.

[Steven]

What I don’t understand is if you have a prevost why you would not have all things up to stuff when it is such a nice coach , those that do not do PM are playing with fire ,at 10 years of age do all brake chambers , hoses, norgrens and air bags if they are not done its simple fix it and don’t worry about it , break chambers at five years

[gary]

Tom,

That’s a nice H, but at that price I think it will be for sale a long time….

[Brady]

Especially with a open potty. That bus has been for sale a long time. Double K, do yorself a huge favor and come to the Tampa rally if you possibly can.

[Archived]

I agree that the price is high. But if it has been for sale for a while they should be willing to negotiate. My coach had been on the market over 2 years and I paid 2/3 of the asking price. Now that I have owned it for 2 1/2 years I still believe that I got a bargain. But I also have done all the air bags, Norgrens, brakes, shocks, bearings….. and brought the undercarriage to new for a lot less than the coach is worth. Of course I did all the work myself in my shop. My wife says I would not be happy if I did not have a project going.

[Archived]

Here are a couple of items buyers should consider.

Any repairs to a coach will cost the same whether the coach is 2 years old or 20. Whether the repairs are to fix broken items, or to replace aging items just because a coach is old and has a very low market value, it doesn’t mean the price of parts or labor is proportionate.

Doing your own preventive maintenance is cheap. Really, really cheap. Our structure, our motor, our transmission etc. are robust and are going to last a long time if they are well maintained. Change fluids and filters and keep those items in good working order and you will avoid some very large expenses. Other PM items, ranging from air bags to brake chambers, to tires to batteries to valves are expensive but when you consider how long they last their cost is not very much on a per mile or per year basis. Ignore them and some of the consequences can get very expensive.

The two least maintained items we seem to hear about are the cooling system and the pneumatic system. Get moisture in the pneumatic system and it takes a lot to dry it out and reverse the damage due to corrosion. Failure to maintain the coolant system can result in the loss of the engine. Our coolants contain chemicals that resist corrosion, but also will protect the cylinder liners from porosity. A Google search will reveal exactly how over time the lack of the correct chemistry in the coolant will allow the failure of the cylinder liners, which in turn is going to require a new engine. This occurs regardless of miles.

If a buyer gets serious about a particular coach, and the maintenance history in the form of logs, receipts, or other records is not available, consider the maintenance has not been done.

[Dick]

Thanks Jon, Thanks Tom,

Tom, as soon as I bring her home I’ll take pics and post ’em. The bus is in colder climates so I need to wait for the snow to melt – can’t bear driving her home in the salt (which she’s never experienced before). It’s an ’04 Vantare with the bedroom superslide which fits a king size bed. It also has two very comfortable electric sleeper sofas in the salon and a hallway closet capable of bunks! Factory 365 steer/tag axle tires and an 18K lb steer axle round out the picture! Suzana and I are excited! I’ve waited nine years for this coach! 🙂