[Archived]

when they do the latest repair, are they riveting the whole bus or just areas of concern. I am sure it must be whole bus, but want to verify.

[Corey]

Paul B, If the coach has an issue, regardless of the extent the entire coach gets the repair with rivets and cover strips.

Paul H. good question and as yet nobody that we know of has had the answer. I do know of a coach that had two previous repairs and which was just given the total coach rivet repair at Prevost’s expense, including paint, but that coach was under warranty when the previous repairs were made.

Delam is an issue to the extent you as an owner have to give up the coach for a month or more and may have to pay for the paint. But if you are a purchaser you can make sure that is done before you purchase the coach. Now that there is confidence in the fix I suspect the entire issue is being blown out of proportion. I think Tom considers the fix to be value added, and I imagine if two identical coaches are side by side, and one of them has been repaired, that one will carry a higher value.

[jack]

so based on the feedback on Delam, I will only consider the purchase of an XLII coach that has been through the latest Prevost Rivet Repair. That simplifies that issue for me and I think it is reasonable based on this forum.

[Archived]

Paul,

You will severly limit your choices if you assume that posture. Let the entire market of XLII coaches come under consideration. Then if you find the coach of your choice has not had the rivet repairs you can get it tested. Then if it needs repairs find out what Prevost will offer, which so far is going to be to add the drip rail, seal the panels, rivet and add the trim strips at their expense. Then get a paint quote and at that point you buy the coach and manage the repair process or you cut a deal with the owner to complete the repair process, adjusting the price either way to compensate.

It is not a big deal, so no need to make it one because from the feedback we are getting everyone that has thus far had their coaches repaired are very pleased with the process, the quality of work and the paint work which often includes polishing to make the coach look as new. If you take the coach prior to repairs you get to not only manage the process including where the repairs are completed and what paint shop is selected, but you have no better time to have every little chip and scrape and loose paint repaired.

Keep in mind not all coaches need the repairs. Several have been tested including some approaching 10 years of age and there was no delamination found. If the problem has not surfaced in 10 years it is likely there are going to be no issues.(that is an opinion only)

[Rick]

Everything mechanical has the potential to fail. That applies to the Precost shell as much as it does the drive train or suspension. All we can do as owners or buyers is to try to tip the scales in favor of longevity.

Absent a warranty, engine, transmission and, perhaps to a perhaps lesser degree, suspension repairs can get expensive real fast. In my opinion, a bus with a well documented history of quality maintenance backed up with receipts helps tip the scales in favor of a mechanical failure later rather than sooner. I would expect that such a bus would command somewhat of a premium compared to another which has either a poor or unknown maintenance history.

I believe that the same applies to the delamination problem. A coach that has had the Prevost factory rivet repair, in my opinion, helps tip the odds in favor of longevity of the skin. It certainly provides at least some degree of peace of mind. I agree with Tom that the rivet repair process adds to the value of a bus under consideration for purchase.

The good news is that it doesn’t take an expert inspection to determine if that repair has been performed as, although subtle, it should be readily apparent to even the inexperienced buyer.

That being said, if I were in the market for an XLII, I would not necessarily limit my search to only those having had the rivet repair.

But I would look far and wide to find one….and spend a whole lot less for one without it.

[Archived]

This isn’t as complicated as you may think. If your buying an XLll and the latest repair (rivet/paint) has not been done, you would be best advised to have Prevost do their test and let them make a determination whether or not you have a problem and based upon that information you can make an educated purchase decision. The inference that XLll have taken a hit because of the delam problem is completely untrue. The first thing is understand that these busses are depreciating assets, and the transaction prices (not the asking price) that I have personally seen over the last year prove to me that this issue has had NO effect on the XLll value, and I have personally seen both repaired and non repaired coach transactions. My experience that the delam problem has made purchasers aware of the problem but in no way deterred them from purchasing a “shiny side” coach. IAs far as previously repaired coaches are concerned I think that once Prevost has attempted to repair a delamination they are actually acknowledging the problem and I would think they would be hard pressed to walk away from that coach once they attempted the repair. Manufacturers generally warranty the product not the owner and Prevost has shown no indication that they would walk away from a coach that they atempted to repair at an earlier date, my latest coach is a perfect example of that.

I’m still a firm believer that this issue isn’t as big as we think, yes we have some problems with some coaches but I still believe the lions share of XLll’s have no problem………just my opinion.

[Archived]

Let me add some perspective to this discussion which should put the financial impact on XLII coaches in perspective.

I have had 2 rivet coaches and now an XLII. If my skins should start falling off tomorrow I would still rather have my XLII. There is no doubt the XL is a great chassis. It represents itself very well in terms of quality and its near bulletproof construction. I think it has an ageless design. I love the simplicity of a lot of its features such as window replacement and ease of maintenance.

But the XLII has raised the bar. Yes the glass is nowhere near as easy to replace, but insurance for glass replacement is cheap. Yes some have had skin issues. But the XLII handles much nicer than my XL. Not so much better I could criticize the XL, but in subtle ways such as how it tracks down the highway when passing big vehicles. The difference is there. It is quieter. I thought the 97 was quiet. After all it did not have slides and it had a body so rigid I could support it on three stands and the body would not twist. But the XLII is silent. No wind noise. No creaking and groaning because it has slides. In fact no noise from the slides when underway. You know the engine is back there somewhere, but it never intrudes.

And mechanically the differences again are subtle, but they contribute to the improvements. The brakes are awesome. The dash is much improved. Visibility out the large glass windshields is fantastic. The lights are better. No more polishing wheels because of the Alcoa Dura Bright. And one thing we do not miss was as the sun came up and the day heated up our 97 skin was popping and snapping making all kinds of noise, and in the evening as it cooled it did the same thing.

Are there some things I don’t like………yes. But the XLII is so much nicer than the XL if I have delam issues they will never be such an important thing that they will erase the benefits of the XLII.

[AL]

I think someone is talking out of the wrong orifice when he says “the value of an XLII is being affected by this problem regardless of the state of repair”

Since this process is fairly new, and no great numbers of coaches have had it done yet, we have no idea if pricing will be impacted. But, as one who is getting mine repaired as I type this, and one that has seen the final product after repairs were made, I see no reason for the price to be lower at all. In fact I would bet that the prices will be higher due to the fact that #1, the repairs are done and #2 the bus looks like new when done.

Only time will tell, and when you consider the total ownership expense of a Prevost, even if you had to pay for paint, it isn’t any worse than a set of tires or batteries as has been stated here before.

[Paul]

Cupcar: Do you know why Marathon would use Valid slides? I talked to someone who seemed quite sure that it was a price difference that was the reason. The same person also indicated that they also farmed out some paint work as well. I know they have the capability to paint at Coburg, but do they do them all?

Inquiring minds want to know….

[Archived]

DKO,

No way I’m putting down the XL’s, I like them and owned 4. They’re bullet proof and you’ll never have a delam issue.

The point I was making was there are many more XLII’s on the market than XL’s. Just take a look at our site, out of 137 coaches for sale, 26 are year 2000 or older. I didn’t back out the H’s, just making a simple comparison.

So, enjoy your XL and drive it until the wheels fall off, although not in your lifetime!:)

[steve]

No problem, Tom, I was just poking a little bit.

DKO

[Archived]

Thanks a bunch Jon, Mark and Tom….You guys are talking us into looking for the right XLII which we would really prefer over an H.

[Jim]

Corey,

You have a great coach, but I suspect you will be as amazed as I was at how Prevost had improved the chassis from the XL to the XLII.

If you have an opportunity take one for a spin. You will sense the difference immediately.

[Archived]

Look guys you can’t have it both ways. If a coach that has a rivet fix done is, as someone said, “I see no reason for the price to be lower at all. In fact I would bet that the prices will be higher due to the fact that #1, the repairs are done and #2 the bus looks like new when done.” What that person is actually saying is the price is lower than what it should be if there was never a problem unless it’s had the fix.

Keep in mind I was replying to a prespective buyer and still suggest that they test the waters when negotiating using this potential issue as leverage. If it gets them no where, okay; but it might save them a few bucks just showing they are aware of the issue.

If a company proactively stands behind a problem that should not have been expected, then generally their product is not negatively impacted. You can see this with the mass repainting of GM autos in the 80s or 90s, I forget which. Well beyond the warranty period GM stood up to defective paint or painting process and issued a voluntary recall whereby an owner could get a new paint job for $50. In other cases, auto manufacturers have extended the warranty on some part of their product due to premature failures. In the case of delamination of the XLIIs, I haven’t seen anything proactive on the part of Prevost, although I wouldn’t as I don’t own one. I also haven’t seen anything that provides specifics on what Prevost will cover, if anything. Although, most have reported full or nearly full financial coverage by Prevost. Just put yourself in the shoes of a prospective buyer, especially one that’s considering a Prevost for the first time. You will likely only discover the delamination concern from a forum, such as this. A dealer or private seller will likely say nothing, unless of course they had the fix and think it will help with the sale.

[Brady]

Jon, maybe at Branson ?