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New Bus!?
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Dawn, Geo,
We will put together some pics if you would like to get a view of our coach?
Thank you,
Chris
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Chris, would appreciate that…our email is open…I think. Geo.
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Geo,
Could you please give us your email address?
Thank you,
Chris
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Chris, e-mail is coreygrubb@yahoo.com. Geo.
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Thank you, Geo
Just saw the typo lol.
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I really Jerry’s bus without the trailer. If I could get my coach sold I would be looking at that one for me. but it is appearing I am going to end up having to take a big hit and trade if I am ever going to get a bus.
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It is very hard to pull the trigger on a purchase. I have been a member of the two bus club twice and while I never intend to own two at a time it is how things worked out. We saw the coach we wanted and bought it before we sold the one we wanted to sell.
For me I think it is easier to sell a coach than it is ot find one that checks all the boxes on our wish list. The key to selling is not to price a coach at what you think it is worth, but to price it at what the market thinks it is worth. That is what you will get paid anyway, so why not do away with the anguish of being brought down to that level over a long period of time, and just start out there?
BTW, a coach is worth more than a dealer would pay.
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Jon astutely said: “BTW, a coach is worth more than a dealer would pay.”
And a coach is probably worth more today than it will be in a month, or six months, or a year …. everything being equal. Granted coach prices have firmed up coming out of the recession, but we should be near, at, or maybe beyond the peak for a while.
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I play around on a number of bus related sites. It literally pains me to see very nice coaches languish on the market because the owner is emotionally attached to it and ends up chasing the market price down. By that I mean a seller believes the coach is worth more than others on the market (and that may in fact be true), but when it doesn’t sell at the asking price, the owner ends up dropping the price. The only problem is the lowering of the price is following what depreciation is doing to the prices.
If a coach is marketed for $10,000 over what the market is willing to pay, the owner ends up not selling the coach. A year later the seller recognizes the price is the problem, so the price is lowered, but is still $10,000 over the depreciated price from a year ago.
I have never seen market values go up, only rarely have I seen them hold firm for an extended period, yet often I see a coach with a high asking price remain unsold for a year or more. The owners of those coaches may be hoping to get enough money to pay off a loan, or may think a $50,000 new paint job added the same amount to the value, or the owner may think the cost of maintenance is added value. Whatever the reason, a coach that is overpriced will remain unsold and in addition to the never ending depreciation Dick mentions, the owner continues to face expenses for storage, insurance, and the loss of money due to interest rates on a loan or loss of earnings on invested capital.
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Jon
Very good insight on the whole process. It is hard to find a coach that fits everything that you’re looking for and then time it with selling the coach that you have.
How did you handle the sales tax with selling the extra coach?
Thank you,
Chris
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The new owners pay the sales tax to their respective state when they register the coach or transfer the title to their name.
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Sales tax is a consideration when looking to sell outright or trade.
In my case, I would only pay sales tax on the difference in the price of the new coach and the trade in allowance of the old coach. Basically the tax is on the out of hand cash.
Selling the old coach outright and then buying a new one in a seperate deal means I would be paying tax on the entire price of the new coach. This added tax burden certainly does not offset the low trade in value a dealer will give, but every little bit helps, especially if in a high sales tax state.
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If only the computations were so easy.
Trading means the dealer is paying you wholesale for your coach. He may show a huge trade in value on the paperwork, but he is also going to show a selling price for the coach you are buying high enough to be able highly value your trade.
Here are some numbers that are approximately correct on a recent coach purchase I am aware of.
The buyer had an older coach he could trade. If he did trade it would be shown as worth $170,000 against a $700,000 purchase price of the coach being purchased. For a clean deal, no trade he could buy the newer coach for $600,000. If he traded he would pay tax based on a $530,000 difference. If the tax was 10% he was paying $53,000 in tax. so he had a total of $583,000 invested in the new coach.
But he opted to sell the older coach outright and he netted $150,000, paid the $600,000 so his difference was $450,000 new money out of pocket. His tax was 10% on the full $600,000 or $60,000 so he had $510,000 out of pocket to get the newer coach. He was unable to sell his older coach for several months so he carried insrance and some storage costs, but still came out money ahead paying the tax on the full purchase price.
The only numbers that are not accurate are the taxes paid. I picked 10% to make calculations easier. The other numbers are quite accurate. The selling dealer did not want the older coach and would wholesale it so the actual allowance was small so when resold there would not be a loss. A newer coach or one the dealer wanted would have shifted the figures, but not by much. The older coach was well maintained and had good records so the seller was able to command a better price than the $70,000 the dealer was offering, but he assumed some risk.
When I buy a coach I expect to pay the most for one from the converter that built it, but I also expect to get a coach of higher value because the converter will make it right before selling it, and will strand behind it after the sale. I expect to pay a little less from a dealer or one who sells consignments because generally that seller will go over the coach and take care of things that need repair, but that dealer is likely not going to take care of things after the sale so to me that coach should sell for a little less than the converter would sell for.
I will pay the least for a coach from a private seller.Almost always what you see is what you get and to assume any risk a buyer expects to pay less.
And as far as sales taxes converters and dealers provide the documentation used for tax calculations. Private sales the amount of the purchase price that is reported is just that, private and how the buyer reports the price to the DMV is up to them. Buyers also have the option of registering the coach in a no tax state so sales taxes almost never influence a sale.
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All well spoken fact Jon, However the trump card to all of this is one can only afford what one can afford. Unfortunately there are a few of us that can’t buy a coach, bus or plane outright. Nor can we afford two coaches or buses while we wait on one to sell because both are financed.
It just be the way it is for some of us.
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I am completely aware of how a person’s finances play a big role in what they can buy and how they can buy it. I am not going to begin to suggest a person give up their opportunity to put together a deal to buy a coach, but do want to point out that for the opportunity to put together a deal sometimes the deal that makes things happen is very expensive.
A reality we all have to face is unlike days now gone by the financial markets have changed significantly to the point where without a dealer in the mix to facilitate financing some purchases involving older coaches are not going to get done unless the parties involved are dealing in cash. As buyers and sellers we have to do the best we can given the conditions now affecting all of us.
A fact hitting every one of us is it is the very conditions in the market today that are driving the market value of some exceptional older coaches way down because lenders consider them too old.
Look specifically at the prices of coaches as they reach a certain age.
But what I won’t concede is the cost to buy a coach is only a small part of the cost of ownership and a lot of new potential owners have to face that fact. The cost of the deal is only the starting point with all other expenses very quickly adding to the costs which never stop.
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