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My 91 Beaver Coach Problems II The Resurrection!
My fist post was getting a little long and many of us didn’t know how to page up and down! Hence the new thread…
As a quick update; on my trip home from picking up my bus in Texas. The engine light came on and dropped my speed to 55 and the cruise and Jake Brake would not work. All the gauges checked out fine and it was determined it was safe to drive.
Sunday late afternoon I took the coach to Clark Power Services in Knoxville, TN and parked outside their fence for the night. It was my first night spent in my bus. I got there Sunday because they told me to be there at 7:00 am when they open. What they didn’t tell me is that 8V92 specialist didn’t get there until 9:00. Oh well!
They checked the gas filter and found the filter and the canister contained what they described as a jello like substance. It was when they could not tell me the flavor I knew it would take my personal inspection. It did in fact look like jello and to their benefit the flavor was inconclusive! The mechanic, who I’ll refer to as Russ (because it’s his name), said the filter canister (canister is my word maybe not his) was almost impossible to clean and there would be no guarantee they could get it all out. His recommendation was to take off the old canister unit and put on the new twist off filter like the current Prevost have. I agreed and it was done! He also told me I’m going from an expensive $40.00+ filter to one I can buy at Walmart for $15.00 bucks.
We took it out for a test drive after that but the initial problem continued. The decision on the new filter system was the right one, regardless of it not fixing the problem.
He then checked some possible wiring issues in the electric box above the engine. We took another test drive and again no joy! He told me he doubted it would solve the problem but wanted to rule it out. I asked him what code he was getting on the computer and he said 35 which I’d not seen before. I asked if he saw code 63 which is the code I got when I was bringing the coach from Texas and he said no! I checked three times over a 20 hour 1100 mile period and 63 was the number I got!
There is a special computer they need for my coach regarding the DDEC system. Knoxville didn’t have it and It’s being overnighted from their Nashville branch so they have it tomorrow. Meanwhile one of there mechanics who drove my coach felt there was a problem with 1st gear. They took the coach out with a computer hooked up to measure the transmission and what I got out of it was the computer shows the coach is moving at 3 mph slower than is shown on the speedometer. I didn’t hear anything more about the 1st gear issue.
Not knowing how much longer this will be and/or when its all figured out. I rented a car and drove home. My fault, I should have taken more clothes and been prepared for a longer stay. I don’t know why every time I go somewhere is raining and overcast, bummer!
Again I must give a shout out to Jim “The Tool Man” Lane for his invaluable assistance as I was trying to settle in for my first night in the bus! Thanks for your sage advice Jim (Jon things thats a spice) and thanks for sticking with me. Do you guys know to turn a light on in a bus you have to push a button? I liked to have worn my hands out clapping!
I’ll know more tomorrow and will let you know as I do. I almost forgot, I was going to see Jeff at ETLC after Clark but had to cancel. As soon as the bus is fixed I call him and hope he can fit me in!
Harry
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141 Replies
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Especially pay attention to what Tom said about fuel and the best way to cure the problem short of cleaning the entire tank by draining and flushing is as he said to polish the fuel and then use the coach often to keep fresh fuel in it. If it cannot be used often never store it unless the tank is full, and if possible keep it stored where there are minimal temperature spreads daily.
Make sure you have plenty of spare fuel filters and the tools to change them. If you do feel you need to change filters make sure you are prepared with fuel to fill the filtersand have a means to prime the engine. When you are back in this area or at Jeff’s I can show you how to prime your 8V92.
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Thanks guys and I’ll do all those things and I’ll take you up on your offer Jon. I wish Clark would have told me those things. I’ll be interested to hear what they have to say after they’ve hooked up the computer. I didn’t like the 1st gear comment and the thought of them messing with the transmission. But maybe they were talking about a computer tranny situation and not a let’s take the transmission out and see what we can see.I’m wondering if Clark doesn’t get things figured out if I should drive down the road to Prevost in Nashville? I want a bus that’s well and to know for sure what’s causing the problem and why! Is that so wrong?
Harry
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Prevost cannot and will not work on your engine and transmission.
You have to rely on someone with 2 stroke Detroit Diesel and Allison transmission expertise to deal with your problems.
I’m just curious………you had an appointment with Clark yet they did not seem prepared to deal with your DDEC II issues and only after you showed up did they make efforts to get the software or reader? WTF?
I would also like to know why they think your transmission has an issue? When you drove it did you count upshifts? Your transmission is a 5 speed HT755 (I think) and it will seem like a six speed because as it goes up through the gears it goes through a lockup in first before shifting into second which makes it seem like a six speed. I’m curious about what makes them think it is not operating correctly.
When are you coming back to Knoxville?
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We recently experienced a transmission shifting problem where the coach would not shift from 2nd into 3rd unless you let off the accelerator. Prevost Jacksonville diagnosed and fixed it in no time. The problem was clogged fuel filters.
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I’ve not noticed a problem with the transmission but if there is one how would I know? I have no source of comparison. Maybe I’m making a big deal over nothing because they didn’t mention it again. I also understand this is a process but I’m with you Jon! Why didn’t they have the computer before I got there, that cost me a full day?I hope to get a call today saying it’s fixed and come get it… Am I a dreamer or what? Jon’s even being nice to me and we all know that can’t end well!
Harry
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Harry:
Getting your coach worked on is like a three legged stool:
1. The chassis/shell–Take it to Prevost.
2. Drivetrain–Take it to a HD truck/bus/coach shop like Clarke Power … especially one that is a certified Detroit Diesel/Allison Transmission repair facility and in your case a shop that professes expertise and knowledge with the 8V92 powerplant and the Allison transmission of your vintage. If I need to take our coach to a shop like this, what I want to hear from the service manager is that the shop is experienced with Prevost seated coaches, entertainer coaches, or motorhome coaches.
3. Conversion (house)–Jeff Rowe at ETLC, Tradewinds, Parliament, and the handful of other shops that dedicate a significant amount of their business to Prevost conversions. Jeff has the experience and expertise to do a significant amount of work on the chassis and the drivetrain to a point; its likely the independent Prevost shops do as well.
There is some crossover, in some cases lots of crossover. You can probably get the oil changed in the engine and generator at all three kinds of shops; same with brake chambers. But as Jon or Tom pointed out, I would NOT take the coach to Prevost for a significant engine or transmission issue unless they were really close.
Hopefully later today, you’ll be at ETLC and meet Jeff Rowe. Only then will you get in good hands … better than even Allstate!
Are you towing a vehicle yet? I noticed you had to rent a car.
Have you figured out the problem that created the long groove in the gravel?
When you get to ETLC I hope that Buddy Brown will still be there to greet there and help you get parked.
Good luck! Keep us posted.
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Hi Dick,
No tow vehicle yet and as you know they are becoming fewer and fewer to come by. Ford seems to be the only company where most of their vehicles with automatic tranny can be towed 4 down. Chevy has some with the Malibu, Spark and Sonic. Then the list goes down fast from there. Jeep Cherokee 4 WD can be towed 4 down but requires a special switch to put it into absolute neutral but there are very few of them around.
• As for the long groove my rear tire made its not repeated itself so I don’t know what went on there?
• I really look forward to getting my bus to the point that I can get on over to Jeff’s. And I’d love to meet Buddy!
I sure want to get this stuff behind me and get on the road with a new TOAD without a heavy load. I hope this whole thing doesn’t come down to a simple matter of rotating the air in the tires? I’d hate that!
Is there a specific brand that’s best to “polish the fule” and where would I find it or would I order it onlone? I used the gen for around 2o hours, should that filter be checked?
Harry
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Harry, I just sent you an email with the diagnostic codes for DDEC II that came with my 1990 bus. I believe the codes did not change from year to year, so you may find them helpful. I also sent you the transmission codes.
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Harry, fuel polishing is a procedure where a device with a pump, filter(s) and a water separator is used to pull the fuel from your tank, pass it through the filters and separator and return it free of water and foreign matter like algae back to your tank. Marinas that have large boats powered by diesel engines almost always can polish fuel.
The problem you might have is your coach only has a one side fill. That means they might have to pump your tank through the filters and into an empty tank, and then pump from the tank back into your coach. When a two sided fill is available the removal and return at the same time keeps your tank contents stirred up and by running the polisher for a period of time it does a more complete job of removing even sediment that otherwise might remain on the tank bottom.
If your jello was what we call “algae” and you use additives that kill that material it tends to slough off the tank walls and rapidly plug your primary fuel filter. That is why we suggest if you cannot get the fuel polished with some means of pulling and returning fuel to the tank at the same time you prepare yourself to be capable of filling and changing fuel filters and priming the engine if needed when doing the filter swap.
If your coach has a Raycor filter as primary everything gets very easy and you can see visually if the filter is getting plugged. But if not I think the standard primary filters on the 8V92 are easy to access,
Using an algaecide and running your coach through a few tanks of fuel reasonably quick tends to cure the issues also, but you just have to plan on changing filters as you do that. The fact you just went 1100 miles which means a couple of tanks of fresh fuel have been added might indicate the problem is not severe so polishing might not be as important as just exercising the coach and replacing filters if there are signs of fuel starvation.
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Hi Jon,
I know that the previous owner added an additive to the fuel with each fill-up. I can’t remember the name but he got it from Walmart, was in a dark gray plastic bottle, he put in half per fill-up and it smelled like the dickens. I have a bottle of it in my coach and should have paid more attention to the name. Where would I go to have the diesel fuel polished as its obviously something I can’t do? As far as running the coach I do not intend for the coach to sit more then 30 days. I’ll always take it out for at least a good hour run anytime we don’t have travel plans.
Sunday night was the first time I ran the generator. I have no experience with them but it handled the refrigerator (I only ran it for the load and to make sure it worked) three air conditioners, lights and pump and it handled them with ease. The pump surprised me? For some reason I thought I’d hear it working and didn’t. I was also surprised by the water pressure, it was every bit as strong as the water pressure at home, which is also on a pump. And using the water in the kitchen and the bath at the same time made no difference. The generator noise took a little getting use too especially at bedtime. I concentrated on the noise it and the air conditioner made and let it help put me to sleep, just takes some getting use too! I thought the generator would make a lot of noise outside but was surprised that its really pretty quiet.
Haven’t figured out the over the road air yet. On my way home from Texas it was freezing me out and I just flipped a large plastic toggle switch to the center position and that was it. Pushing it left is for air and to the right for heat. I thought I just had to flip it to the left and it would come on, but it didn’t. I went outside to check because it’s more noisy than a trip to Boise, but no joy! If there is something else I need to do please let me know?
Harry
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Some Cummins service center are Coach Care centers and they can polish fuel. I had a problem on my Foretravel. You bring the coach in with about a quarter of a tank of fuel, they add a catalyst chemical, you fill the coach up with fuel, the next morning they filter or the fuel. Cost was about $400. But it really worked.
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I just called Clarke and they don’t know anymore today than they did when I was there Monday and Tuesday. I’ve been told I should never have left because I’ll immediately go to the end of the line and I think that may be very true! Now I’m sitting here with a rent-a-car with no end in sight!
Trying to be reasonably balanced, Clarke told me they only have one 8V92 specialist and he’s also the guy who handles service calls. So he wasn’t working on my coach because he’s on a service call. OK, I get that, it doesn’t make me feel any better, but I get it. However, my first scheduled appointment with Clarke which I had to cancel because of other issue which have been documented. This 8V92 specialist was on vacation but they didn’t think he was needed because it sounded like a computer issue. So don’t they have another guy there who can read a computer? Jon said he thought it was most likely a result of a bad ground, sensor, or electrical connection! So again I ask, doesn’t Clarke have anyone else who can read a computer?
One thing I’ve decided is I’m going to carry something with me from now on, I’m not sure what, but something so when someone says “its an older coach” I can smack em with it! And I don’t want to hear from any of you with a 2018 latest and greatest saying “yah Harry, you’ve got and old one there” because I will hunt you down!
My plan is this! I live in an area of “good old boys” who’s name and reputation is everything to them! I contacted the mechanic who got me going with my other issues because I thought I remembered him saying he knows a mechanic with the computer and electrical background who could maybe figure this out. He’s checking with him as we speak and if he says he can do it, I’ll pick up my coach from Clarke tomorrow and bring her back home!
I have the opportunity for enclosed housing for my coach, yippee, and the front opening is 13 feet. Does anyone know the height of a 1991 “yah 1991 so get over it” Beaver Coach Le Mirage XL with an in motion satellite?
If I’ve offended anyones delicate sensibilities tuff! Jon and Tom have both told me they’ve always found me to be offensive!
Harry
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Harry:
Its your coach, do what you want. I know the last couple of weeks must have been frustrating for you. I’d be very hesitant to pull the coach out of Clark and take it to someone who from what you said in your post might know what to do … with emphasis on “might”.
Before I would do that, I’d want to make sure that this guy you’re being referred to was very knowledgeable about Detroit Diesel 8V92’s in Prevost chassis. If it turns out he is an expert, that might solve your problem.
If you’re concerned about Clark’s competency with engines and coaches like your’s, I’m sure that Jon Wehrenberg and Jeff Rowe have reliable opinions since Clark is right in their back yards.
Situations like your find yourself in … coach in shop, no way to get home, had to rent a car, coach sits at shop, meter on rental car continues to tick away, etc. …. is one of the reason why I’m very reluctant to take the coach anywhere without a tow vehicle. Even after your coach is all shined up and really reliable, you never know what might happen.
As far as height goes, 13’6″ is the number I like to see.
Dick
PS: I don’t find you too offensive. I lived and worked in New York City, had lots of friends in NY, NJ, and LI. So I’m probably more thick skinned than some of the more sensitive guys on the forum.
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Hi Dick,
And here I always thought you were known as Mr. Sensitive here on the forum.
13′- 6″ you say, that’s a bummer! What about if I dump the air going in and out? I sure hate giving up the only enclosed storage around if I can find a way around it. I just looked at a build sheet I got from Prevost and they say 139″ (11′ 6″) from bottom of tires to top of bus. I’m thinking another 12″ for the satellite and that makes 12’6″. The door opening is 13′, the interior height is 15′.
So what do you think? Any 90 to 95 owners out there who know the actual height?
Harry
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