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Major engine issues. Need advice
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Chris, “ I’m going to teach the part of the next seminar titled, “What? Are you %#^* me!” haha
“, that alone would be worth attending the 2nd seminar!!
Good luck, better days are ahead for you!
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Feel your pain Chris, after all could have been anyone of us….I am a new owner of a 2000 Vantare and am learning every day.This is a great site. Sounds like you will at least have a like new engine and warranty….Hope you have alot of good memories with the coach after this….
Victor and Madonna
2000 Vantare xl -
Never thought about that Jon, but true, I rarely see engine issues on this site. Very good point. Chris, hope the rebuild comes out great and no more issues. I am anxious to hear what the cause and solution is for your troubles and if it could have been caught at inspection.
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Thanks for the moral support. I am going to see if the dealer will take an IOU for the 6 months of dues you are so generously donating…..oh wait that’s POG thing. It’s only money and it gives me a year’s warranty on the parts. Told the kids after this bill I think community college may be the way to go now (just kidding). I do look forward to some great trips ahead.
As as far as cause, I spent some time with the foreman who also said the engines tend to be “bullet proof.” Guess the body armor was defective on mine.
the issue appears to have started with a crack in the head gasket. Might have been a bad casting on the head. I wonder if being #6 something got dumped in to the cylinder from the EGR. Another possibility is the previous owner had overheated badly before and didn’t disclose. I’ll ask them again what they think. The foreman seemed as baffled as Jeff and I. At least I got to it before the oil etc had become contaminated with coolant.
As as an aside, once we got passed the BS front desk at Freightliner they have been responsive and helpful. The work (to my untrained eyes) seems very professional and well done. Their basic customer service manager however needs to come to one of the seminars to learn how to take care of customers from Jeff. The proof will be in how well the coach runs and if I have any further problems. I did ask them about DD picking up part of the cost. The DD response was too far out of warranty.
I’m still trying to get my pictures uploaded. So far all I have done is get some random coach picture (not of my coach) loaded onto my signature. I’ll try again tonight
Chris
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Just so that you know that you are not alone, about 2002 when I had my RV Park a brand new Prevost conversion came in for a week. Returned about 4 months later for a week and reported that the new engine was sucking a lot of oil, much more than his old Royale. He returned again and once again mentioned the excessive oil usage and that he had repeatedly taken it to DD and they all told him it was that the engine just breaking in. He made reservations and was to be in Christmas eve. He called about noon and cancelled his reservation because at 30,000 miles the engine had just turned loose and he was sitting on the side of the road just out of Jacksonville with a blown engine. He came in the following day in his toad and was trying to pay for his site, but we refused because we had rented it out with no problem. Being the kind person that I am, I offered to take the troublesome coach off his hands if he would just signe the title over to me. His response was that he considered me a good friend and he would never mistreat a good friend by dumping a ton of trouble in their lap. Just like the PC friendship demonstrated by Jon and Tom offering the dues money to go toward your repair. If I was in charge, instead of 6 months, I would have done a year, but then that is just me being the kind and gentle person that I am.
Seriously, Your pain and suffering and checkbook impact is felt by all of us, but you will have a truly Zeroed out coach when all is said and done, and that should give you many trouble free miles.
Fred
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Chris,
There is one theme that has been a constant. Heat is the enemy. The quickest way any of us can damage or destroy something on our coaches is to let it overheat.
A dragging brake, a bad bearing, a failed inverter fan, and overheated transmission or engine all are in the category of items that will be lost due to heat.
How was the dealer able to determine the engine had the overheating event? Was it retained in the ECM memory? Clearly potential buyers are going to pay close attention to the lessons of this thread because if there was any way to identify an engine that has been overheated they will want to do it.
What I would like to know is why if the engine was overheating did the ECM shut it down or was it overridden?
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Jon,
The overheating issue was only a speculation as a possibility of what may have started the cascade of issues. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. When it gets picked up to go to Jeff’s I will have a list of questions to ask to see if I can get more answers. I’ll ask them if they ECM etc.
The latest fiasco is they broke the oil fill tube putting it back in and have to order a new one since they did not have it in stock. Another, “You have got to be kidding me.”
I am now thinking that maybe to be complete I will just go ahead and replace the Prevost bus shell (LOL).
Chris
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Can I clarify something Jon mentioned …
If when buying a Prevost, can you take the bus to a Prevost dealer to conduct an engine & trans analysis or, must you find a Detroit & Allison dealer? I understand Prevost won’t do any serious work on the engine or trans, but do they have the equipment to conduct a thorough analysis?
If Prevost can’t do this, why would you take the coach to a Prevost dealer prior to a purchase, other than to check out the panels (XLII) for delam issues?
1999 XLV X-6872, liberty #440 -
If you take a coach to Prevost to inspect, and expect them to provide information about the health of the engine and transmission it can be compared to going to a general practice physician for a comprehensive heart exam. It is cumbersome taking a coach to multiple places for a pre-purchase inspection, but if you want the best advice that is what you have to do.
If you have an engine or transmission issue Prevost will not work on it, but will send you to the local Detroit dealer so why not do the same for inspections?
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We got the call and the coach is done. They did essentially what the call an in train(?) overhaul. Briefly it included the following
- Head and Gasket
- Counter bore
- New liners
- new rings etc
- #6 new piston and rod
- New main bearings
- New injectors (since it was out and openned up)
- New hoses etc
- New bolts and studs
- New A/C compressor for drivers air
Total Cost………….$22,063.94So much for community college for the kids. Looks like art school if they can draw the picture on the matchbook well enough (LOL). I will attach the invoice for all to see in the interest of letting everyone have as much info as possible about pricing should someone have the misfortune of doing this too. Just have to figure out how to upload a PDF.
Chris
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Chris, we still want to know what happened. I am especially interested in knowing why the rod on #6. That means physical damage.
If they are willing to do the autopsy it will help us all.
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I will ask them again. The rod was replaced I think since it was part of the kit and that was the cylinder with the issue. I will discuss it with Jeff who saw the engine and probably has a better understanding of it than I do.
I do know the job took over 100 hours. The repair shop did cut $2500 off the bill for the previous times I had it in there and they did not find the problem.
I will get as much info as I can and post it.
Chris
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A lot of us have been following this because those who contemplating buying are wondering if this problem could have been foreseen. Those of us who own our coaches are wondering what could have triggered the issue.
From anecdotal evidence and reports from fleet operators of Series 60 EGR engines we know the #6 cylinder suffers from the EGR with excessive sooting and wear. We also know coolant systems that have not been maintained will cause cylinder liner damage. But nothing suggest an engine of your mileage is at the end of life. That is why any info you can gather is helpful.
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I didn’t read it correctly the first time and thought it was only one liner, which would make buying a liner kit a no brainer and it would come with a new rod. Now, I am as curious as you are Jon about why….
Please try to find out exactly what happened and why, and what the deal is with the rod. We would all like to know.
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Jeff picks it up in the morning and plans to look over the liners etc and talk to the guy who did all the work. Hopefully that will give us some more info. I too would like a definitive answer as to what led up to the failure.
chris
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