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Love Hate Relationship with Prevost Service
It was time for my annual oil change, etc. so we got to Prevost Mira Loma Sunday night for a Monday AM appointment. Things went as planned and the service folks were prompt. The reason I use Prevost for this minor service is I know they will also take a look around for any other possible issues. Of course, while sitting on the rack and oil is dripping from the tag axle so it’s (again) time for new wheel seals on that tag. The oil made a mess and the tech cleaned it all up very well but when he put it all back together there appeared to be something wrong. I asked and got “no, all’s good” and silence when I mentioned it seemed to be taking a long time to just put the wheel back on. A few hours later, seeing 4 techs and a supervisor around the bus I was pretty sure something really was wrong. No one could figure out why it would not all go back together properly. Final determination was that we needed new parts. Spindle, bushing, s-cam, something. Got the bus parked for the night (now 9PM). The next day there was a meeting and it was decided that parts might not be necessary (nothing was wrong when we got here) but maybe the 2 brake pads had different amount of wear and simply needed to be reversed. Yep, that was all so something like 7 hours later it’s all back together and working. We also looked at some unusual wear pattern on the right front tire so we will start will all new shocks. Dallas replace 2 a bit over a year ago (so no warranty) and Mira Loma says they never replace only 2, always the 4. Really, never? Dallas just replaced only 2! Dallas said we also needed new brakes as they are below 50%. Mira Loma says the brakes are fine. It just makes you crazy. However, they also found the 2 tag air bags had tears (splits?) in the very bottom you would not see unless fully extended so the new ones are in place as and will save us from the upcoming stranding we would have had if they had not looked us over.
That’s where the love/hate comes in. I have them do this minor service knowing they will try to keep me safe as well but it seems one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing and the techs aren’t knowledgeable enough to do the job right the first time. About 50% of all repairs we have done at Prevost have to be done a second time to get it right. This Red Carpet service concept is a joke as no one is really checking after anyone or we would not see many of these issues.
I really envy those of you who have the time and facilities to do this stuff yourself. It has to not only be quite rewarding but it has to add a level of confidence to your useage and ownership. Now I just wish I had not seen how oily stuff gets under there! Wish I could get a good steam cleaning but that’s likely no longer enviromentally correct.
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32 Replies
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Bill,
For the most part I think Prevost does a great job. For them to do their best work however the owner has to help.
When I say help I am not suggesting you grab a wrench but that you “manage” your coach maintenance by keeping notes or logs or records of maintenance work, what was done, when, what was deferred, what is due, and what inspections or other work you want done.
Those of us that do have the place, tools and equipment to do our own work know all that stuff. Or at least we should remember what we did and when and what we need to do. If a mechanic is under the coach to do an oil change as I do for example, he doesn’t know you expect him to drain the air tanks to not only check for moisture (and where it comes from if some is found) but also to verify your check and protection valves are still functioning OK. I know to do that, but he doesn’t unless you tell him and also tell him what you are looking for when it is done.
As to getting different information from two different mechanics who both work for the same company the easiest and best way to sort that stuff out is to ask to see the shop manual that calls for a specific procedure or the policy that tells why to replace 4 instead of 2 widgets.
We all get and give some bad advice and when we question it we are far better off to go to the source or in the absence of manufacturer’s recommendations we have to use our own judgment to determine if something is good advice or an old wive’s tale.
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It just got worse here in Mira Loma. While speaking with the lead tech last night, he said there should not be 2 yellow and 2 blue shocks on the front end and that if 2 were replaced in Dallas they should have replaced all 4 and they should all be the same. So, I agreed to have them put the right 4 shocks on since the 2 “new” ones were not correct. I get back from breakfast and I have 4 new shocks 2 yellow and 2 blue. Talk to the boss and he says that’s the specs and Delane just says OK. I asked why they thought I would replace 2 brand new shocks if they were only going to replace them with the same thing? They all need to be replaced as a set. This is just stupid business to say one thing and do something else only to justify it later is some made up story. Anyway you look at it, either Dallas screwed up on the last service or Mira Loma screwed up on this one if only because of ignorance. At least I have new shocks! Is that likely to help with the scalloping of the center tire tread? I doubt it.
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Boy, do we know your frustration. I would march back in there and demand they put four shocks on the same color. Did you ever get any reasonable explanation for putting two blue and two yellow back on??? We have four blue on our front.
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Bill, First ask to see the shop manual section or the parts listing that spells out what is supposed to be on there. Then ask for a refund for the work that was wrong. They will give you a credit or refund.
Your coach sounds like one that was either modified to the service bulletin or built with the Mae West airbags and the dual shocks that was a fix to compensate for a heavier front end than the Prevost limits at the time. CC or Marathon?????
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My recollection from my ownership time on my 1989 was that the 3rd and 4th shocks (as a pair, obviously a total of 3 shocks is no good) were optional depending on driver preference. I preferrred a softer ride and I think I always stayed with 2 even though I had mountings for 4. I recall the shock stiffness was indicated by color code and I think I had 2 only of the stiffest (black???) with the Mae West bags.
Also, these are not Ferrari’s. You will never feel a slight difference in shocks. I replace my rears INDIVIDUALLY when they leak. Mira Loma sold me 2 Koni’s for the front a couple years ago…just broke the shaft of one clean. That’s a first for me. Installed one new Monroe and can’t tell the difference.
Very frustrating…As an ex service manager (and an ex Mira Loma regular; I’ve been back once in last 2 years, used to be up to 6 times year when I was high mileaging) I know exactly how you feel. About your only saving grace is this EXCELLENT forum.
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P.S. Can you post a photo of your tire?
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I think the added pair of shocks was to deal with compression and rebound on coaches with the heavier fron end.
The added shocks kept the coach from bottoming out on certain types of bumps and resisted the full extension rebound that would break the eye off of a pair under those circumstances.
I have no clue what impact they had on the ride.
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Also, I would be very suspicious of multiple oil seal failures on the tag. The TAG and FRONT axles seals have not been problematic in my experience. Very possibly something amiss causing failure. Care to take two scotches, calm down, and give us details.
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Had my old coach in for service last year (Houston) and they noticed rear seal leaking. They were going to replace one. Told them replace all. My coach had 52,000 miles when I bought it a few years ago and figured all rubber parts were getting stiff from non use from sitting in a bus barn for years. . At the same time replaced all shocks, my call, Monroe (yellow) I think. The only thing I’ve noticed with work is air system and leans. They have had my 1991 about 5 times at Ft Worth and Houston and still hits the ground in about a week on one side. Always tell the Techs they have card blanche, just get it fixed. Almost have paid for air system work more than I paid for coach. LOL!
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Bring it to ranch in winter we will fix it right Glen
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I have been telling Prevost for years that I feel there must be something else wrong if I have to replace these seals every 2-3 years. They just blow me off, do the repair and send me down the road.
I can’t force Prevost to fix a problem they don’t see or don’t see as an issue. Even though they have all the records and they can see the repeated repairs (mostly on the right side but on all axles) they do not seem to feel I have a valid argument that there is an inherent problem.
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We’ve said this before……….sometimes chasing air leaks is very time consuming and frustrating, but with some patience and the right tools it can be done. Whether you use something like Hector’s “Texas Bubbler” or use a guage attached to a circuit or component every air leak can be identified. I think several have said it only takes ten minutes to fix a leak, but can take 10 hours to find some leaks.
The last I heard the Prevost standard for fixing the leans was if it remains level for 3 days the coach is OK. If that is not acceptable to you as an owner it is necessary to make the coach virtually leak free. That means every single component such as air bags and valves have to be leak free. All fittings have to be leak free. To reach that standard is very time consuming and requires a lot of attention to the details. If you turn your coach over to any serviced facility and want that standard met be prepared for a very large cost because the effort required is substantial.
As to hub seal failures something seems wrong. I know that on occasion they can leak and they need to be replaced. I can only think of two reasons why there would be repeated failures at the same axle position. First, the most common is whoever is installing the replacement seal is crushing or deforming the seal so the inner portion does not rotate freely within the outer portion of the seal. When the seal is installed in the hub it is a press fit, and in the absence of the correct tool it needs to be inserted very carefully to prevent denting, distorting or deforming the metal to metal portion. It can be inserted without the tool and is in many instances, but it has to be done carefully. The proof it was done properly is the seal will be aligned correctly and the inner portion will rotate.
The second reason I can think of repeated failure is the stationary surface that the inner portion of the seal rests on a stationary surface of the differential end housing or the spindle and that surface is pitted or corroded. The seal cannot make good contact with a corroded surface so eventually the leaks appear.
This assumes the bearings are not damaged and the hub has been tightened to the specification in the shop manual. Some installations call for a torque value to be met, some for a runout value and however it is stated that is required.
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Thanks Peter on the invite and Jon my bus stays up long enough to make me happy.
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I tend to agree with Jon’s comments. However, you need to be more specific re your problem than referring to “these seals”.
In approx 350,000 miles on 2 buses, I have never replaced a tag or steer seal. I have, however, replaced about 10 drive seals on both drive wheels of both buses on a fairly regular basis of about 50,000 miles/seal.
In researching the issue, I assumed the high failure rate was due to my extreme use: high speed heavy towing with axle oil temps approaching 300F. Switching to synthetic oil brought operating temps down somewhat but didn’t alleviate the problem.. I then tried super single drive wheels which opened the rear axle seal area to more cooling air which lowered temps a little more.
While I’m not yet certain of the end verdict, I can tell you that a visual inspection of the seal Prevost uses (Scotseal, I believe) reveals it is clearly inferior to the stemco brand seal. I also now insist Mira Loma uses an actual torque wrench during installation of my seals. My thoughts re seal quality were echoed recently at a local Love’s where I was purchasing tires. Not only were my thoughts re seal quality confirmed, but I was told about a newly designed seal locking device by stemco which I am not utilizing.
Point is, as a relatively high mileage motorhome driver I have found Prevost to be way behind the times on adapting impreovements and/or switching suppliers where necessary. I have run into this on many components, small a/c compressors, alternators, wheel seals; and have pointed it out to Prevost…the results depended on current management attitude. Unfortunately, it appears current management attitude is our problem. We would like to think Prevost service is great for our own peace of mind, but the truth is the truth.
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Conclusion (ran out of room!)
Point is, if you can get specific, often because of the wealth of collected experience on this board, we can be helpful.
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