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Just noticed water under the bus!
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Hi guys,
Just thought I’d let you know that I put 10 gallons of antifreeze/distilled water in the radiator, fired it up and guess what? No leaks noted! And of course a happy dance ensued that I recorded and sent off to dancing with the stars. I found out when it’s 34 degrees outside with both engine doors open and on high idle, you dance!
I did call Jim Lane of ColoradoBus fame for a little information and he was helpful as always. Hey Jon, thanks again for putting me in touch with Jim, he’s been a tremendous help and is a great guy!
When I fired up the bus I saw a light I had not seen before and found it’s the water in the fuel light. I checked the fuel site glass and no water was noted. I also checked to make sure the fuel cap was on tight and it was.
Jeff just put in new filters in October and I haven’t put in new fuel since my last two 40 mile runs, so I don’t understand the light? I remember reading somewhere that rain can cause that to happen and we had a lot of rain yesterday. But I don’t get how rain could do that, do you?
It’s almost like when you buy a 40’ bus stuff happens? Who’d of guessed that?
Harry
1999 XLV X-6872, liberty #440 -
You’re right…that’s why I have a 45’…it never breaks!!! LOL
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Harry, First, I am curious as to why you put in 10 gallons of coolant. That is not enough for a coolant change (at least 18 and up to 24 would be expected) and unless you drained that much out of the system first it is an indication the system was really low on coolant.
That leads into the second concern. But first, I have no idea where you would find a sight glass for fuel. There is none. I don’t know what you are looking at and considering a fuel sight glass, but it isn’t.
The real concern is what might be a lack of understanding about two things. If a coach is not being used (as in running a lot of miles to keep the fuel fresh) and frequently refilled the potential for condensation in the fuel tank gets very high. As an empty fuel tank “breathes” it pulls in fresh humid air when it cools, and then during the day when things warm up it pushes the air out. Each time it breathes in the moisture in the air condenses due to cooling and water droplets form and end up in the fuel. Repeat this over a long period of little or no use and the amount of water in the bottom of the tank gets to be significant
The solution is to keep the tank topped off. The less air space the less condensation as the tank breathes.
Fuel filters do not always separate water, and those that do will do that between the tank and the engine. If your coach has a Raycor fuel filter / water separator it has a bowl on the bottom to trap water via gravity separation. That is part of a pre-trip inspection if the coach is equipped with one and the remediation is to drain water from the bowl. The best practice is to not allow water to accumulate.
But on the topic of water and coolant both situations discussed above require an understanding. If coolant is needing replacement and none is visible on the ground or leaking, check the oil dipstick. If it is “milky” there is coolant in the crank case and that is serious. A check of oil on a pre-trip inspection is not to just see if there is enough, but its condition.
Water in fuel can be serious because apart from the fact that enough will stop the engine, water is going to grow “algae” in the fuel and that can and will plug fuel filters and shut down an engine.
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Hi Jon,
When I got back from my last run on November 24th the spotter told me the bus was leaking fluid and found it was leaking from a small length of hose near the overflow. I wasn’t smart enough to look at the sight glass at that point. What I know after changing the the hose is I lost over 5 gallons into a plastic tub I put under the bus and an unknown amount the tub didn’t capture. I know from the radiator fill door that the radiator holds 14 gallons. (I saw this for the first time today after thinking it was in the engine compartment.) I bought 6 gallons of antifreeze and 6 distilled water, thinking I should be safe with 12 gallons. And as I said earlier it took 10 gallons.
As for the fuel sight glass I’ll have to take a picture when I go over to the bus tomorrow. On November 1st I took the bus over to the new RV park. I filled the bus at that time and took two 40 miles runs since then. My master plan is to fill up after my 3rd run with each run being 10 days apart weather permitting. If you feel I should fill up more often please let me know what you recommend? I will also check the dipstick for the milkyness you mentioned. Jeff changed my fluids in October and certainly hope there’s not a problem with water in the oil!
OK, I’ll report back tomorrow and let you know what I find. I know you’re not a big additive fan but is there one that could help me with water in the fuel?
Harry
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Maybe my memory is failing but did you not previously say you ran the engine, it shut down due to low coolant level and that you topped it off with 3 gallons? Now you are saying you added 10 gallons. Maybe I am getting this wrong. I would be very surprised if your coach had only a 14 gallon coolant capacity. In addition to the radiator and engine you have a coolant filled heat exchanger for your OTR and dash heater. Add to that converter installed heat exchangers and coolant lines and the volume gets significant. Your owner’s manual from Beaver should have information on actual coolant capacity.
As to the fuel, didn’t your coach sit for a long time at ETLC and did it have full fuel or was it low on fuel the entire time? I know we seem to harp on this, but our coaches do not handle lack of use very well and one reason is the fuel tank can accumulate water especially when fuel content is low. The situation is made significantly worse if the coach is stored where temperatures vary during the day because the greater the daily temperature swings the greater the amount of air in and air out of the tank.
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Harry if you don’t have a Owners Manual will check mine and see what that 8V92 takes. Only had to add to level once and that was when Prevost Houston didn’t burp the system when I had the coolant changed a couple years ago.
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I don’t want to trivialize water in the fuel, but my Racor on the 94 would sometimes light the water indicator after a heavy rain or powerwash of the bus. It was intermittent, and would go out in a few minutes. I attributed it to moisture in the connection at the Racor.
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Each conversion is going to have different coolant capacities. The amount of coolant is dependent on how large the original Prevost system is and that is affected by if the coach has OTR or just driver’s air.
Then the converters may use an Aquahot that has almost no impact on the Prevost system, or the converter could install a Webasto that not only has many heat exchangers, but long runs of coolant lines as well as coolant used in the HW tank.
The capacity has to be coach specific.
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Jon,
In response to the statement you made about the “milkiness” in the oil, on the 8V92 I had, we experienced fuel getting into the oil case and had the same appearance. The oil level would rise on a trip because of the diesel getting into the oil. If I am not mistaken, Stewart and Stevenson went through the engine and did a “ring job” and also replaced the main bearings, etc. I apologize that I cannot specifically recall what they did but it solved the issue of fuel in the oil case.
I also wonder if there is an identifiable “foreign solution” in the coolant that would indicate a hole in the cylinder wall? This could be a fuel mixture being added to the coolant. I hope not. That is a $ number to repair when the wall has been penetrated.
Pres
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Fuel in the oil is not unheard of on an 8V92. The message I wanted to convey is if the oil does not have the typical appearance it could be coolant, but it also could be fuel. Fuel in the oil is detected by holding a match at the dipstick and if it flames it is fuel.
The fix is usually a minor repair associated with the lines and connectors beneath the valve cover unless it has gone for some time and damaged the engine.
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I am confused about the direction this tread has taken. Harry never said had anything in his oil. I doubt that he could have lost10 gallons of coolant into his crankcase based on what he has reported. I may have missed something. Perhaps these are general observations not related to Harrys situation.
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The drift in this thread was my fault. When Harry mentioned he added 3 gallons and then mentioned he added 10 gallons I mentioned loss of coolant could also mean other than a leak onto the ground, but an internal one. Obviously there is no way 10 gallons would leak into the engine and not be very obvious but I just wanted to point out an unexplained coolant loss could be engine related.
Sometimes coolant can get into the combustion chambers and be exhausted and when the engine is not running can enter the crankcase.
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Thanks Jon,
My intent was not to try to call anyone out for thread creep. I know a lot of members communicate by email and phone. I just wanted to be certain that Harry didn’t have a serious problem that was not communicated on the forum. Thanks again. Jeff
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