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Jon’s comments from early this morning and an idea
Very early this morning Jon wrote:
To a great extent the sense that a Prevost conversion is complex and difficult to understand is because we all initially look at it as a whole. All motor homes both conventional and conversions however are in reality just a bunch of systems and components that share the same space. When we look at these as individual components and systems we begin to realize we just have to understand to isolate each in our minds to more easily learn how and why they work.
Our coaches have gotten progressively more sophisticated as more technological features are incorporated into the coach. But early coaches that have few or no proprietary operating systems are relatively simple and it is only within the last 10 years or so that the operating systems have gone far beyond ease of servicing, Despite that however the components that all come together to make the coach a home on wheels are still easily understood if a person wants to learn them.
I suspect conventional motor homes have evolved in much the same manner with proprietary operating systems for control of the house and chassis functions.
New owners or someone seeking their first Prevost just need to learn some of the basics for each of the systems and when that is done the logic the converters used in creating their coach becomes apparent. From my limited perspective it appears every conversion seems to have similar logic to their systems to make the coach user friendly. While some coaches have systems that might be difficult to repair because of access, most coaches are easily serviced The difficulty is usually because the converters are dealing with limited space so not only is a lot of stuff crammed into a small space, but some components might not even be visible because they are tucked away behind panels or in other open spaces not typically visible.
The real key to understanding the coaches however is to only look at things as separate operating systems and components and not look at the coach as one great big complicated jumble of devices.
What lucid, cogent thoughts from Jon so early in the morning.
He
does make writing about Prevosts so easy; probably because he has had so much
experience with them (both good and bad), has very strong feelings and
convictions about them, and has told this story so many times.Eventhough
I’ve owned only one Prevost for just over three years now I’ve recently had the
opportunity to provide general information about Prevosts and their ownership
directly to a number of forum members. These opportunities have reminded
me how steep the learning curve is for both prospective Prevost owners and
newbies (which in some respects I think I still am).To
help everyone go up the learning curve quicker, I’ve started wondering if there
would be value in creating a Prevost wikipedia on the PC Forum. I’m
thinking of focused descriptions of all things Prevost. Like:1.
What’s OTR and how does it work?2.
What’s the different between and 8V92 and a Series 60?3.
What’s the history behind Beaver coaches?4.
What’s a Norgren valve?5.
What’s an R12 valve?This
list of “terms” would probably grow into a hundred or more over
time.Much
of this information is probably available in the Forum posts somewhere, but
finding it, digging it out, having readily available isn’t always easy.
I think of having it all in one place, organized in a easy to use format
(alphabetical) would provide great value to prospective tire kickers, newbies,
and even some grizzled veterans of Prevost ownership.Thoughts.
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7 Replies
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Dick
I think that would be a great idea. For a newby such as I, to have this info in one location would be a great help. Learning and knowing all the systems would be of great value.
Ron
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I agree, this would be awesome. I have owned 2 nice coaches in the last 15 months, and I still feel like I am drinking from a firehose. I swear I learn stuff on every trip we make and the more I learn the more I realize how little I know. And this is coming from a guy who is pretty technical and a helicopter pilot.
Today I learned how you can spend more than $1000 a day for internet when you go to Canada. Yes, I am not exaggerating. Be sure to get an international package put on your internet device. -:)
Chuck
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I have made the comment that newbies don’t know what they don’t know.
I found that out the day we took possession of our first coach. Since that day I have learned how lucky I was in the purchase of our first coach because despite my total ignorance we did some things right. The most important thing we did without realizing how valuable was having a very qualified coach converter do a 100% coach pre purchase inspection with me following him around the coach trying to absorb as much information about the coach as possible.
I also realized after we started using the coach and seeing a lot of other coaches at FMCA conventions and rallies that our coach was very good and it served us very well for 15 years and almost 250,000 miles.
But as a newbie and buyer I seriously doubt that if I had a single source of information as Dick suggests it would have the importance of just getting my hands on the coach and using it. Dick mentions OTR, and there are few topics that have strong opinions like those held by owners of coaches with and without OTR. A potential buyer will go crazy trying to decide if OTR or the lack of OTR is important enough to be a deal killer. Until a person starts really using the coach any discussion of the topic is just words.
But if we assume gathering all the topics discussed on the forum into one document or article is valuable then the question arises about who is going to do it? How is it possible to condense the almost 70,000 posts and countless articles into a single tutorial? Every one of us has opinions on everything ranging from OTR to slides to rivets to roof airs to service intervals to who to buy from to who to service the coach. Then to add to the complexity there is the need to insure the discussions cover the differences between converters, Prevost chassis types, and the evolution of the systems in both the conversions and the chassis.
We seem to answer the same questions often on the forum as new members are added, but we all have to keep in mind that each has to be answered in the context of the questioner and the specific coach or system in question. A question about long range fuel tanks has no meaning to owners of later model coaches because there is no such thing, but someone asking about it relating to a mid nineties 45 foot coach with a Series 60 engine could be asking about something that could extend driving range by 700 miles. Based on the engines, chassis, and emissions systems an entire article could be written just on fuel capacities and expected range. So does it make more sense to answer a specific question on the forum, or can the topic be covered sufficiently in a comprehensive list to answer all possible questions?
I think an effort to pull information together in one spot will literally take thousands of hours and will have to include the entire history of Prevost chassis production as well as the evolution of all conversions.
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I have found the information under “Articles” is excellent reading and are, for the most part, item specific! Maybe that’s the way to deal with this subject. When a topic is found to be of great interest defined by the members, write an article about it by someone with that expertise.One I can think of that would be very helpful to a newbe is the major difference between each converter? Or put another way, where does each converter Excel? I was told for example that the Beaver Coach excelled in woodwork and simplicity, meaning easy to work on without being an engineer. One flaw may be excessive bloviating and favoritism but you can get that in anything!
What are your thoughts on that and Dick of Wisconsin, would something like that fit into your thought process?
Harry
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Each converter has their strengths and weaknesses and to try to define them on a forum is sure to turn into a free for all. They all made or make a good coach. No conventional motor home is going to have systems as durable and well done as those in our conversions.
But trying to list strengths and weaknesses is going to end up in a pissing contest. For example, one may say 8 8d batteries is better than 4 8D batteries. In the context of one having more power for a longer period that is correct, but it only makes sense if the coach with 8 batteries is used for a lot of dry camping. The coach with 8 batteries that is used to go mostly from power pole to power pole has a lot of expensive battery power that is rarely used, is expensive to maintain and takes up valuable space. It all depends on the needs of the coach owner and how a coach is used.
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My thoughts were for factual, accurate definitions and descriptions of “all things” related to Prevost motorhomes. Whatever is in the “Prevost Wikipedia” should contain very little, if any, “opinions” on what is better or worse. Otherwise prospective Prevost ownes and newbies will just get confused. I would expect there to be situations where the strengths and weaknesses of say OTR vs Cruise-Airs vs Roof Airs vs Webasto vs AquaHot could be explained.
I think much of the material is already in the Forum. In some cases what’s been need might a little clean up and expansion.
I really didn’t envision a single document, but something like Wikipedia where you could search say “Beaver” or “Royale” or “Prevost chassis history” and go to a the citing and read the history. Kinda like one would do with the online Wikipedia. that most of us should be familiar with.
For example:
1. What are the generations of the 8V92 and Series 60 and when did the generations change?
2. What generations of transmissions have been used Prevost coaches and when did the changes occur?
3. When did switch from SFA to IFS occur and what is actually the difference?
4. How have the service brakes changed on Prevost coaches over the years?
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It is going to be impossible to keep some information both factual and helpful.
If you want to understand that pick one of the hot button topics like OTR. First people with no experience with OTR, or who are looking for a coach and have to decide if they will need OTR are going to get conflicting views, both of which have to be explained. OTR as I use the term means a coach that has a Prevost installed whole coach heating and cooling system. The A/C is provided by a 6 cylinder compressor, engine driven on the rear passenger side in the engine area. But despite the need for folks to differentiate between that system and a converter installed system that supplements the Prevost installed “driver’s” air, the owners of those conversions call their system OTR also.
I have never ever seen a post in which an owner of a converter installed “OTR” has ever said it failed to keep the entire coach comfortable. Yet I have been in the bright sunshine in the southwest with 100 plus temps and my Prevost OTR has struggled to keep the coach cool despite a substantial difference in cooling capacity.
The question then comes down to interpretation. I am comfortable when the coach is around 70 or less inside. Is everyone else comfortable at a much higher temp so a lesser capacity A/C system is OK?
I can say for certain people complain (his initials are Tom) because I keep my coach too cool. So are you suggesting I am expressing an opinion about the two systems or facts and who knows which? How would you write a factual description of each system so the reader knows exactly what they are and which one will be satisfactory for their needs?
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