[Archived]

Mark,

I am now wearing my PC admin hat as I speak to this issue.

Debate, criicism, discussion and information sharing is important, and the reason PC exists is to maintain lines of communiication between members and Prevost especially, but with all who participate in the conversions of Prevost coaches. However for such critical pasts to be fair and open there has to be two sides to the discussion. I seriously doubt that happened on the POG post you speak about. It is clear you are not happy about a situation that occurred between you and Liberty. I truly believe that while you view the situation from your perspective there might be another side to it. I’m certain of one thing. Before we jeopardize a relationship between PC, any of its members, and any of its advertisers we would want to be sure those involved have had an opportunity to talk to one another and clear the air. It was clear from the posts on the thread that got deleted that some of those posting critical remarks (not referring to you because I only heard your side) were less than forthcoming. I saw documentation which indicated some of the comments were baseless and in fact Liberty had acted exactly as they should have as a company that values customers.

As to censorship, we prefer to never have to do that. But some posts are going to be censored if they are political or religious, or intended to disparage someone or some company without facts to support the comments. If a discussion of a critical nature takes place, as long as the comments are supported by facts we will treat them as constructive, but we cannot tolerate piling on especially when some of the remarks are proven baseless. We will censor.

We are not POG, we cannot second guess any decision made by the owner of POG regarding censorship and prefer to not get PC involved in the middle of such a debate which is between POG members and its owner.

But keep in mind on forums there is no guarantee of free speech. Every forum, whether it is like ours, or POG or an on-line newspaper that allows comments there are going to be limits.

[AL]

Good post Mark. Good post and response Jon, your approach to the censorship on POG is fair and factual.

I was a victim of cenorship on POG by the former owner shortly after joining. The deletion of information by POG was solely based on the the fact that a bus converter was not a advertiser on POG.

The former owner had carried a grudge when not getting a advertising contract. This continued for years and I believe further censorship happened whenever postings were not to his liking.

I followed most of the comments expressed by POG posters and there are always two sides to any story and people are entitled to there opinion.

One last comment, if Liberty has been offended by any of the postings on POG then as a advertiser I’am sure they could post a general message, putting a bucket of water on the fire.

AL

[Archived]

My question would be does the censored post at least make it to the sponsor? Why not let them at least respond? There maybe a seed of truth in the original post that needs to be answer by the sponsor at least in private between poster and sponsor. GregM

[Archived]

Greg, speaking solely on behalf of PC all of our forum is open and visible to anyone. Advertisers and registered members can post, so nobody is excluded from participating in the discussions. My only concern which I tried to address above is that remarks critical of a company or individual are to be supported by facts, and that I would hope before negative comments are made public that two sides in a difference of opinion have had an opportunity to discuss it privately. We don’t want this site to be a court of public opinion so remarks that tend to be critical also should benefit all that visit this site so others can avoid similar misunderstandings, poor products, or poor quality services. Our stated purpose on PC is to create good lines of communication so all comments need to be accurate, and if at all possible should be balanced with both sides of an issue entitled to speak to the issue.

Keep in mind however that some criticisms are impossible to respond to because of the way they are phrased. If someone chooses to state that I beat my wife you can imagine the impression that will leave with readers of that post. Despite the fact you were talking about my playing card skills and my response saying that I am a better gin rummy player the damage has been done. Everybody has been poorly served when posts of that nature are made.

It is also hoped when one of us receives good service or a quality product we will share that information as well.

[Ken]

Just putting this on the table to think about.

Most of the comments about how someone was treated were and I assume this for conversation on phone inquires buying a bus.

It was brought to my attention about persons looking at real estate. If a customer calls a real estate agent inquiring about a house in the $300-$900 K range agents are trained to pre qualify the buyer. They won’t even show a house unless the person is qualified ,I’am told.

So in defense of bus salesmen maybe questions were directed to do the same on the high end buses. Maybe after some bus salesmen , spend time, send pictures, talk about the weather they want some hope the person has the marbles to afford the bus.

[Archived]

Jon stated our position well and we as PC don’t have a dog in this
fight.

I know for certain that several of the comments trashing Liberty
were without merit and should have been challenged for accuracy, but
instead it was allowed to fester without proper supervision until it
was censored.

Our response in a similar situation on this free public site would
have been much different as Jon has pointed out

[JIM]

In fairness to Jon and Tom, I think that perhaps we should let this thread die here on PC. It is not the proper venue to debate what happens over on POG.

Mark

[AL]

Jon,

I just want to know, what is gin rummy? Sounds like a college drinking game.

[John]

You will need to know the secret handshake and have the decoder ring before I can tell you that.

[Michael]

OK

[Archived]

John,

I think it’s a TN deal!