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iPad upgrade
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Chris,
I think with some liquid inspiration we can develop functional specs for a system that will do all described above. Then Jeff will pay us a licensing fee each time he uses the design. He will have coaches lined up all the way down to Vonore wanting to get the upgrade.
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IPAD’s or some other brand of controled upgrades get to be almost a necessity at some point in a coach. The panels used in the coaches will at some point have the screens fade and you will loose the ability to see it. Next we upgrade TVs or get rid of the VCR and go with Blue Ray players, or in some instances we remove the CD player and install 8 track players and a record player. With all this then we have to (if we want to still control the coach through crestron) get into programing and upgrades…With technology change then we also have the ability to add to and customize functions within a coach…
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I have seen the progression from a coach that used wire, relays, switches and circuit breakers, with every thing being done manually, including the selection of the source of AC power in the coach (inverter, shore or generator). There were no automatic transfer switches and if you wanted to watch TV your choice was local via a roof antenna, CATV, or a VHS. You had to push buttons to pick the TV source.
No GPS, no satellite, and certainly no in motion satellite. The engines were mechanical. No DDEC.
Today each conversion has operating systems that can control almost any function and both the chassis and the house are multiplex electrical systems. The downside to the advances in coach systems is they are obsolete in fewer and fewer years. What makes things worse is that owners have completely lost the ability to modify their coach. On the older coaches if you wanted to swap out the record player or 8 track for a VHS tape player you just do that. You could change the old black and white TV for a color TV with no other change other than to remake the trim around the TV.
Today you cannot change anything because if you do you likely run into issues with cables, and even if the cables remain the same the new device will not work on the ipad or Crestron control system without programming. So at the very least a change in a TV for example means you have to use the remote that came with the TV or get the system reprogrammed which involves in some cases a long drive.
My coach is 10 years old and already some components are no longer available or are not supported. Houston, we have a problem.
I was completely serious when I described how Chris’s new ipad system should be configured. If we have to upgrade, which in itself is expensive and time consuming, we should at least strive to make it even more functional than just switch control. The devices such as ipads can certainly be used to flag dangerous conditions. I would presume there can be a linkage to other systems to alert to more than the house faults, such as an engine fault code display that is more than a code number. It should translate a code into the written description of the code along with a menu of possible corrective actions. It could be tied into a Pressure Pro, the ABS, and the Garmin GPS traffic alerts.
That adds even more complexity and risks even greater issues as a result of obsolescence, but if the opportunity presents itself it appears to offer significant benefits over just replacing a Crestron display that is fading or obsolete.
One thing nobody has yet done is develop an environmental system to maintain the coach at comfortable temperatures under all conditions, automatically. Despite all the gee-whiz features of the coaches today, we still are screwing around with energy management and manually controlling our heat and A/C sources. There is no reason a coach cannot be designed to sense its power source, either generator, or shore power or no power other than inverters, and automatically use the various heat or A/C sources to keep the entire coach at the temperature set point on the master panel. It can have manual over rides, but for the most part it can function without intervention. No charge for today’s brain dump.
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Jon, we can do almost anything you want, however depending on the year and converter depends on how much of that information we already have that we are reading and how much of that we have to add components to give us those readings or values. Would you like your smart phone to ring or receive a text when certain values are in the “red”, no problem….inside tempature, gen running, what ever you wish…all must then translate to a value you place on that information and how much you are willing to pay for that….The newer the coach then typically the more of that information we already have access to and therefore the less we have to retrofit..
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My point was that if you are going to replace an aging Crestron remote with ipads for example, all you get for your money is another set of monitors or touch pads that do not do anything more than what you have. Let’s say the cost is $5000 just to pick a number.
All the information for the other features is available somewhere. It may be in DDEC, it may be on the Pressure Pro, it may be in the ABS brain just to cite three examples. If you can get them to communicate with the ipad, and then are able to tailor the information into a display as one of the pages you have centralized information. Take that a step further and take a DDEC code and turn it into a narrative, and not just a number. Instead of displaying just a XXX fault, have a lookup table to convert that into a written description of the fault, plus perhaps a set of steps to follow.
Use the ipad as a back up camera monitor except when you want another function, like a GPS display, or maybe have a couple of windows.
But when the coach has a fault code, allow that to take possession of the screen until the operator acknowledges the message. In other words create priorities.
Let’s say the new total cost is $10000. But the difference in the benefits of the updated system are well worth the added cost because it consolidates all access to functions, messages and images into one easily read display that also provides added information. In the first example you have not added any value, but in the second you have added significant additional functionality.
If the pages, priorities, and access to information and functions is intuitive you have created a system that has much better value than the original one it will replace.
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After reading all these posts I am almost relieved that I still drive one of the old, simple, manual coaches described by Jon. I rarely have a problem with my coach management source or slides. Sometimes simple is better.
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I have to agree with you Hugh, wanting to be able to maintain my coach myself is a goal I’ve set for myself, and I can’t imagine adding complicated electronics into the mix of keeping this behemoth healthy. I’m so glad this Royale is simple compared to other conversions of this vintage. I must say though, it is fun working on it and learning the different systems.
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I do not want to suggest the converters are wrong. I am not in a position to criticize their choice of creating coaches and systems because they are delivering what their customers want.
Where the problem arises is the owners further separated from the initial buyer are the ones that typically have to deal with the complexity and obsolescence. So my posture is to accept the fact I may (as a buyer of older coaches) have to deal with upgrading or replacing my coach operating system, and if I do decide to do that, I fully expect I will step beyond a replacement with no added benefits to one that has substantial added benefits.
I have stepped from an relatively simple coach to one a little more complex which was very trouble free, to my current one that is even more complex, but amazingly is also quite reliable. The downside is unlike the first and second coaches I can no longer make changes without consequences such as reprogramming. As coaches get newer that is even more true, not only in obvious things like a TV changeover, you cannot even change headlights on the chassis without a reprogramming by Prevost,
To get the neat stuff you have to accept the sacrifice of paying for reprogramming or more.
The only way any converter will ever go back to basic coaches, is if the marketplace demands coaches like that, and until people in sufficient numbers line up with cash in hand ready to buy those coaches, that simplicity is not going to reappear. As much as I like simplicity my Model A is not ever going to remain in my garage anywhere as near as long as other more modern cars because it totally lacks not only the features of newer vehicles, its simplicityis nothing more than an illusion. Yes it is simple, but I spend far too much time keeping it running reliably, compared to my far more complex cars with multiple on board computer systems that not only make it more reliable, they make it safer, more user friendly, and vastly easier to use.
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No reason to keep the code crackers in the dark. Follow the easy directons……
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Those look just like the instructions that came with my last gizmo made in China!
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That’s actually the inner workings of Jon’s flip phone, even though the mice are missing.
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This is a bit of a trick question. If you have a wifi only iPad you may not be able to use GPS on the iPad unless you have an external GPS antenna (which you can buy). The iPads that have wifi with cellular capability (even if cellular is not subscribed to) have a built in GPS antenna that allows the use of an iPad GPS App.
We have a wifi/cellular iPad on our dash that doesn not have a cellular subscription and we downloaded the Navigon GPS App from the App/iTunes Store. Once you download all the maps you can use the GPS without any internet connection. Navigon is a German company that Garmin purchased. Their app works very well and the large iPad screen makes it easy to see.
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Very cool! We have had problems with the Crestrons fading several times. I had wanted to datalog the Tx/Rx pins while pressing each button on the Crestron that’s being monitored as well as the other two (i.e. record what comes in to tell the one that’s being logged to change button status). I was hoping I could then determine the communication protocol and replicate it with an Arudino microcontroller or Raspberry Pi with a touch screen. The screen is ~$70 to replace if it ever goes out again and I’m certain I could source the parts for the entier conversion for less than what the repair costs for one failed Crestron. At that point, it’s “open source” and other information can be brought in or other devices can be controlled, if desired.(This is for my grandfather’s ’97 XL Liberty BTW. I can only dream about owning one for now…)
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Jeff, that is some really cool stuff but I am waiting for the wizardry to be performed on Jon’s flip phone.
He would love it, have to have a magnifying glass to read it but would sure be handy !!!!!!!!!
Won’t take up near as much room on the dash as an iPad.
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You guys who pick on my no voice mail, no text, no camera flip phone are going to be envious. I am currently installing the new intuitive system in my coach that does away with all of my objections to the current system.
I no longer have to go through 5 steps just to open a pocket door or deal with outdated displays that have to be updated every time a new one is introduced. My new system only requires thought waves. If I want to open a door, turn on a light, watch TV or even start the generator, all I have to do is think about it.
I will not share the codes. Don’t ask.
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