[Roscoeapproved]

George,

Sounds like your internal inverter fans may have failed and maybe the bay fans as well. With your CC being 12v you should be able to access the battery bank and hook up a smart charger to keep them from discharging too low.

---

Jeff and Lindsay

91 Marathon XL

[Archived]

George – I have NOCO Genius G26000 26 amp charger you can use until you get this straightened out – The bad news is I am up at worksite in OK until Thur evening or Fri AM. If you still need it by then, let me know and I’ll pick it up in Durant on the way back home – I am going to stop there anyway to check on things as Durant had a power black out when I visited the bus on the way up here today. I also have a commercial 100 amp or so 12/24 battery charger at home that you could use to top things off if need be. Will be at home all next weekend.

As far as how many amps what ever you use needs to be, depends on how much the “fixed” loads you have on the system are drawing. I would guess if you are not trying to run the inverters, fans, any lighting or electronics 15 amps (likely less ongoing – that the “smart” part of smart charger) will keep the batteries charged if they start out with good state of charge. The emphasis being on guess.

[David]

George,

Didn’t you buy the Guest 12/24V charger for the start batts like I did?

If so just move it from the engine bay to the house side. The instruction manual shows how to wire both side for 12 volt vs the 12/24 configuration for the start batts.

But I bet Tom is right, my 458 internal fan failed right before Bella Terra 2 years ago. Buy a small fan and put in on the vents in the case of the 458. Charging overheats that thing fast.

[Jon P.]

George,

Sorry for you troubles especially in the heat. Two inverters acting up within a short period of time and you said the alternator wont charge the batteries. I wonder if something else is going on. Battery issue perhaps.

[Art]

With the exception of an external charger, our coaches are set up so the only means of charging house batteries is an engine driven alternator or inverters.

I know there can be coincidences, but I’m not sure that everything has failed all at once and maybe we don’t know enough. My first question relates to the way the coach is set up. Does the coach have a separate alternator dedicated solely to charge the house batteries? If so is it the 50DN? Has the output of the 50DN been checked with a tester to verify it is not charging?

While the inverters need to be kept cool and fans and fresh air to the inverters are vital, has it been verified with a code or an inverter shut down due to temps that that is the case? and if so, when they cooled down did the inverters function again? If inverters have power to them from shore or generator do they put out charging current to the batteries? Do they work as inverters when there is no power to them? Do they pass current through them to their circuits even if power to the charging section of inverters is off?

[Dick]

All,

Thanks for everyone’s responses. I am at it again today and will report more detail later.The batteries (6 8D’s ) are easy to access. I hate to show my ignorance, but can I simply attach a charger to the first battery’s positive and negative or is some other connection necessary?

[Ronald]

Yes that is all that is necessary. Safety protocol says to always make the last connection, the one that completes the circuit away from the batteries. This is because they produce hydrogen and oxygen when charging/discharging and if this build up in an enclosed area can explode and the explosion travels into the battery case causing the battery case to explode spraying acid all over the place. Don’t mean to scare you from doing this. All you have to do is follow the negative wire to where it connects to something, maybe the frame or some other electrical junction a few feet from the batteries and make the last connection there. Or lacking that connect a jumper cable at the negative battery terminal and make the charger connection to the other end of the jumper cable a few feet away from the battery outside of the confined space of the battery compartment.

I may sound paranoid, but having been in the automotive business for 50 years I have personally seen one battery explode and seen the aftermath of a few others that exploded. Rare, but why take the chance.

Another thing that will reduce the chance of explosion is good ventilation, a stream of air blowing across the work area will get rid of the offending gases. There is still risk if the batteries are very “active” at the moment, either discharging, or recently charging, there will be explosive mixture emanating from the vents. The risk is highest within a few inches of the vents in this case.

Another plus of modern smart chargers is they have circuitry that prevents (or in the paranoid person’s mind is supposed to prevent) sparking when making the connections.

At the very least be sure to wear safety glasses with side shields when doing this type of work. Acid burns on the skin aren’t all that bad if you wash it off right away, but it makes a mess out of corneas, as will plastic shrapnel.

[Archived]

George,

Connecting to the batteries is as easy as you describe, but make sure you know if you have a 12 or 24 volt house system.

If you do have a 12 volt system any charger will do the job, and a multi-stage smart charger will be better. If you have a 24 volt house system you need a 24 volt charger or should separate the batteries and charge them individually

David is correct if you have conventional lead acid batteries but if you have AGM, unless you have the stink of rotten eggs around your batteries they are sealed.

[Archived]

George’s coach is 12 volt and he has Lifelines.

[Archived]

Problem solved regarding charging. Connect somewhere in the middle of the 6 batteries and give the charger time to do its work.

Now the question becomes what is causing the problem with inverters and likely an engine driven alternator. Losing three chargers all at once seems unlikely.

[Dan]

First thanks to everyone for their help and information. It was all very helpful and educational for me.

As it turns out there was no massive failure, but each inverter does have separate issues. As I thought the charger function on unit 1 did fail on the trip, as I look back I should have realized it was on its way out sooner.

Tom, you were correct. The fan on unit 2 did fail and coupled with the Texas heat, shut down on the afternoon of the last day home. I am a 12volt system and my Lifelines are working as new.

David, thanks for your great connection information and your generous offer of the chargers. Based on your information I purchased the Noco Genius and so far it’s quite a tool. If you could ever use some more hands, don’t hesitate to call.

Joe, great memory you have and you were right on the fan.I did purchase the Guest, but would never have thought to use it. Luckily I found a portable that was perfect but brilliant suggestion.

Jeff, I too was very concerned something else was going on when nothing would charge, but kept getting back to the inverters themselves. I know Tom would never let a cell in those Lifelines be the cause and it was just too damn hot to take the necessary steps to find out. I kept trying all manor of combinations and learned unit 2 charger would function perfectly if I kept it cool enough. Blue ice and a fan make some nice air but even that only kept the unit cool enough for a short time. After you guys educating me enough to get some constant charge going analysis got easier.

Jon, I do have the 50DN and it is in working order. I thought I had learned that was how you could always charge in an emergency. Like you and Jeff I couldn’t accept everything going at once. When the batteries were charged but not to float level I tried unit 2 charger and it worked without problem, batteries went to float and all normal. I removed the external charger and turned unit 2 off. Tried to charge with the generator and got nothing. Generator off, cranked the motor, got nothing. Turned unit 2 on and charging perfectly. So my coach has to have at least one inverter charging function on for any power sources to charge the batteries. It seems like this shouldn’t be true, but I have now found it it the CC literature. In my case each inverter shut down for different reasons which meant no charging from any source. The inverter function of each unit continued to function at all times. Batteries now in float and all sources charging again so long as the charger function is on.

Tuesday the inverters have an appointment to be checked out completely . Repair or replace, I should be back in business by the weekend.

PC to the rescue again. Thanks to everyone. Drinks on me !!

[Craig]

Now that’s what you call a follow up, nice job George.

[Archived]

One more follow up and one more question.

As predicted by PC, fan went out on unit one. It actually got so hot the fuse block melted. This obviously did just what a fuse should do and shut the charger down. Fan in unit two sounded like it was turning in gravel and was on its way out also. The heat was shutting the second unit down but it had only begun to reach the total termination of unit one.

Fix included new fans and fuse blocks for each inverter and all is well. To be 100% sure that was all that was going on and to verify my results, I had the charging system checked also. Charging system all good and of course those Lifelines perfect.

The question, do all conversions require an inverter charger function to be on to charge the coach batteries or is it just Country Coach ?

Thanks again for all the help !

[Bill]

George,

My oldie but goodie does not require an inverter to charge the house batts.

I have a dedicated 12V alternator driven by the 8V92. Alternator output to fuse block to large, long cable to the front of the coach direct connection to the house batts located in the spare tire compartment.

The cable arrangement is interesting. the 12 V positive are: alternator output on one end, 4 batts, then feed to inverters/chargers. So the alternator feeds from one side of the bank and the inverter charger from the other.

[Dan]

And, You and Becky were missed in Petoskey.