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Insurance
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Just renewed policy with Progressive. USAA member…multi discounts for just being a good human.
2000 Marathon..1999 Prevost XL 45 MTH
$140,00000 Valuation
$5K Collision
$5K Comp
$3K Contents
Windshield Coverage
Roadside Assistance
Towing
$19250 per year with two drivers (wife and myself)
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As a full timer, USAA Progressive does not offer any kind of fulltimer insurance.
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I continue to pursue this entire issue because I am convinced our coach insurances are not only too expensive relative to claims, but that the coverage is inadequate. To add to the matter that makes this issue more serious is using ACV policies which are providing a false sense of security. Below are some summaries of what might be considered the fine print.
Here is how you as insured coach owners have to view an ACV policy. First, in the event of a total loss you get a check and the insurance company gets the coach. The insurance company determines how big the check is. It is important for you to understand the insurance company determination of the ACV is the foundation for how much they will pay you for a partial loss. Pay close attention to the wording about how coach value is determined. If we want to be consdered as buses, look at their value and remaining life after 10 years of being driven hard and put away wet.
If we want to be considered motor homes (an RV) take a look at how depreciation takes their new value down to almost nothing in a relatively short period of time.
Understand clearly that if you scrape the side of a coach on a big oak tree the age of the coach will have nothing to do with the cost of repairs. It costs as much to repair an old coach as it does a newer one so keep in mind your ACV policy is not going to cover the total cost of repairs due to the oak tree.
If your coach value is 25% of its replacement cost using the formulas insurance companies use to determine useful life and depreciated value your repairs are only covered by that percentage of their cost. You pay the rest. It is very reasonable to assume a $500,000 coach today whose replacement cost is $2,000,000 is only going to get 25% of the repair costs covered. What about a $250,000 coach or one worth $150,000? The reason ACV seems inexpensive is not because it is a real good deal, it is because what is actually covered is little or nothing.
It gets worse. No matter how much influence you think you have because the same company covers your house and cars, the reality is you have none. You likely will never win an argument about what you think your coach is worth compared to what the insurance company thinks it is worth. If there is some nerd in the back room responsible for determining these values, and he thinks your Prevost motor home conversion is just like a similarly aged Winnebago motor home he wins.
My point in sharing this wonderful news is unless and until we can be seen and heard as a single voice demanding appropriate insurance coverage we lose. Your local Allstate or State Farm agent is dancing in the streets because he collected your premium, but do the math based on the two paragraphs below to determine what percentage of total and partial losses you will collect, and then see if you think your cheap ACV premium is a deal. The worst part is we do not have a company willing to cover all of us with agreed value besides Safeco, and they are screwing us because they are the only show in town and they will only agree to an agreed value policy up to a certain level. And the premiums are almost at the level of being called white collar crime.
What we need is an insurance expert with contacts to sort through this mess and see if we can act collectively to place our insurance with a company that will provide adequate coverage for a fair price.
Do I have anyone’s attention yet?
Actual Cash Value is commonly defined as the ‘fair market value‘ of your property. … Similar to RC, when a total loss happens, you would receive the full ACV amount. However, partial losses aren’t paid in-full. Instead, the amount you’d receive is a depreciated value.
Actual cash value is computed by subtracting depreciation from replacement cost while depreciation is figured by establishing an expected lifetime of an item and determining what percentage of that life remains. This percentage, multiplied by the replacement cost, provides the actual cash value.
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Jon,
My experience with insurance claims has been quiet different then your thoughts. Some of my real world experience has been. These do not include all the claims over by business career.
1) My trailer full of Illusions was stolen in 2010. Luckily it was behind a locked gate at my warehouse, my policy stated anything within 300 feet of my property was insured I had replacement value for the props. I was reimbursed $140,0000 for the illusions. Some of them were 20 years old. This was with absolutely no depreciation.
2) I have a 15,000 square foot warehouse which received hail damage. Even though the roof was 20 years old, I received $60,0000 which totally gave me a new roof. No depreciation was included
3) Last spring my home in Oklahoma City had hail damage. State farm wrote me a check for $30,0000 to re roof. I did have a 5 % deductible of the adjustor’s amount. Currently as I GC’d my home I have arrange my contractors to replace roof 10K in labor and 17 k in materials. Which is less then my payment.
As a owner of a medium size company I learned early to read the fine print and really grill insurance representatives and get everything in writing.
Thanks
David Thomas
1998 Featherlight
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The problem is our coach policies are either agreed value or ACV (actual cash value), not homeowners or property damage insurance which is what is described.
The coach policies are the policies to read carefully.
By the lack of posts about insurance claims from coach owners we have a strong indication that as a group our losses are very modest. We need an insurance company that will offer a fair priced insurance product tailored to our needs, and that policy should recognize the repairs are to a commercial bus chassis and a very expensive conversion and should not be confused with a conventional RV.
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When there is no NADA or such for value insurance companies go to the “open” market and the original converter to obtain values. That is the easy part. Now comes the kicker…. Let’s say the coach value based on the “market” is 200k. The insurer looks at the estimates, let’s say they are 100k now they look at salvage value, let’s say 125k, based on bids, So they write a check for 200k and take the coach. Now you can “buy it back” for the salvage value of 125k, which leaves you 75k to fix the coach. This is where it can cost you money.
Having been involved as a dealer for 25 plus years, I am pretty familiar with the process. And have done both, provided values and bought numerous “salvage” vehicles that were mostly cosmetic damage and resold them for a profit.
Now a real life example, let’s say you have an XLII and “scratch” all the lower panels on one side, the cost to replace all the panels and re paint an needed can equal a lot. Let’s make a guess here 75k. Because the damage is purely cosmetic they get a salvage bid for 150k, they total the coach pay you and the salvage buyer sells it un repaired for 175k. You got 200k, insurance was out only 50k and the seller made 25k. Meanwhile all your “knowledge”, updates, etc go un reimbursed.
Hopefully no one will ever need to in this position, however you cannot guarantee someone will not hit you or scrape all your side panels in a parking lot, etc.
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I was on a mission to avoid the rape and pillage of insurance companies that are robbing from us without the aid of a gun.
But with the list of states not allowing travel my focus shifts to insurance covering my bus while it is stored and not driven. It will remain in my locked, alarmed, secure garage until this pandemic is over. Anyone got tips on insurance to cover storage?
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Jon, you want the good news or the bad news first?
If your garage is on your home owners, the bus will be covered by that as the only way it will be damaged is if something happens to the barn. Like barn burning down because bus caught fire.
BUT, you will not be getting Agreed Value with that coverage.
Uh, as with most insurance maybe that is the bad news and the bad news.
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That is why I was seeing if there was reasonably priced insurance for a stored vehicle. I seriously doubt my homeowners will cover the bus, more than likely telling me to file under the comprehensive on the bus insurance.
I have added insurance company executives to my list of folks the world could do without.
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Not sure what my umbrella policy covers… If it does, the bus is not an issue.
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My umbrella is liability only. Seems to be common with most I know. May be other coverage options available.
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Jon
did you drop your existing policy because you arent driving it?
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The coach is still fully insured with an agree value policy, but the cost looks similar to the national debt and I am trying to find a way to cover the coach for storage only. I don’t need uninsured motorist coverage, liability, collision, etc. But I want to insure it in case of a tornado, fire, garage collapse, etc.
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Our most recent last bus, 1999 shell, 2000 Marathon XL40, no slide had an agreed value policy per appraisal of $210,000. Our annual premium thru Nationwide was about $4,500 annual
last August 2019, we sold the 40 ft Marathon for $150K and bought our current coach, 1999 shell, 2000/2001 Featherlite Vogue (depending on bus literature) Rivet coach 2 slide for $150K.
With same insurance carrier using our purchase price of $150K for “agreed value” coverage, not an appraisal, our premium skyrocketed to $6,800 bucks. Same model of coach just five feet longer, and our premium was $2,300 dollars more. The only explanation we received was higher price because of the extra length. Huh? So, we plan on our next premium bill to be close to $10 grand. Ouch. Somethings going to have to give
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Jim,
Check with some other companies, ie Good Sam, Progressive, State Farm. You will probably be happier.
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