[AL]

Chris, It looks like we are going to be turning to you for lessons on power management. Every new owner typically trips the pole breakers. I think it is even written somewhere that the only way to learn power management is to shut down all electrical power for miles around.

Since you have the list of loads there is no sense defining what you can run on shore power other than to say typically if you limit the load per leg on 50 amp service to 40 amps you are going to have no issues.

What is not so obvious however is you have phantom loads or intermittent loads that you need to be aware of even though they are not necessarily showing up on the meters when you are looking. For example you may have a water pump, or aux compressor, or a HW tank that draws 120V power. None of them run all the time, but when they do run they might add 10 or 15 amps to the load and you have no control over them other than an on and off switch.

You also have loads that add to the loads for your inverters when they are functioning as battery chargers. Even with all the lights off and all DC loads other than lights off you still will draw battery power and thus the inverters will be drawing power to compensate for those phantom loads which might include to power a satellite dish, an alarm system, maybe the clocks and temperature displays, etc. You need to determine what those loads are also.

Now, as to the generator. I don’t know your coach loads, but if you are trying to charge a set of bad batteries that adds a lot to the inverter loads, if you run all 5 AC units that is drawing around 65 to 75 amps plus the heavier starting loads when the AC units cycle. Likely you had the refrigerator going,, maybe all the lights, plus you might have been cooking. It is improbable you exceeded the limit on the generator, but possible. I would pay close attention to the generator because my guess is something else might be going on with that. You can help by making sure the coolant level is OK, that the radiator is not blocked, the radiator fan is operating at full speed and if belt driven the belt is tight and in good shape.

[Brady]

We did a list of all the loads:

AC’s—————————75———15 each

Battery Charger————-7

Fridge————————-15———Double sided Residential

Lights(all)———————-15——–Can’t even count all the bulbs that were on

TV’s/Surround Sound——18———4 TV’s with amplified Bose Surround Sound

Water Heater(elec.)———12———Residential electric water heater (25 gal)

AUX. Compressor————5

Misc. Loads——————–10——–Chargers, stove top, etc…..

TOTAL————————–157 AMPS and that is probably the min.

Essentially I had everything on in the coach. I think the gen will do the job but not at that level. My wife had both electric burners boiling corn and beans. So, I think I did push it to the limit. I am still trying to figure out how the inverter works in conjunction with the system. Our previous systems were kind of automatic or less owner managed.

I really hope I didn’t burn anything up. Everything is working great now and the RV tech that came out was great. He really taught me a ton on this process. The only warning I have on is the fan on my inverter but all other read out’s are functioning fine.

[Chris]

Also I am not sure of the current Klien Generator Cooling System Design,But in the past they have been known to use a Auxillary Fan for Cooling as well. Make surre if it has one that it is clean ad working. Also keep the radiator washed out as the way it draws air if from underneath it sucks in a lot of dirt. I been Driving Entertainer Conversions since 1986. They dont always have the best generator cooling system design.

describe how yours is set-up for cooling or add a picture and maybe I can offer some help on keeping the Generator Cool.

Big Dog

[Archived]

Robert,

Hey thanks for responding. I did run the gen all day yesterday after my overload stupidity was resolved.

It ran at 160 degrees all day yesterday with some load on it at no problem. I did inspect the fan system you referred too and it was all clear and clean with no blockage.

As I listed above, I was really putting a huge amount on the gen when I blew out my shore power side.

I have a question for you in regards to the inverter. Do you keep your inverter on all the time whether coach is on or off, on gen or shore? I have been leaving it on all the time. However, since my incedent, the DC Panel solenoid is extremetly hot to the touch. Do I need to re-set something…..Not sure. I will post pics.

Thanks again Robert. By the way, do you know Kelly here in Tulsa? He drives professionally for some OK based entertainers and I have become friends with him talking Prevost buses all the time?

[Archived]

f

This is a picture of the DC solenoid that is about 125 + degrees. Lines are coming directly into it from the inverter.

This is a pic of the inverter (although sideways). It is an Outback inverter/charger system.

This is a pic of battery bay with inverter and the solenoids mounted on the right panel. Again, the DC panel solenoid is really running hot. Something either needs to be replaced or reset I am not sure.

Thanks.

[Archived]

Chris,

Except when you store the coach, the inverters should be on at all times. When power is available they are battery chargers. When there is no 120V power, they draw power from the batteries to provide 120V to whatever devices get inverter power.

Big topic which includes auto-start, storage with power or without, etc.

Given the list of components listed and in use, the generator appears to have been overloaded. Didn’t think I would ever see that happen.

[Archived]

Should that solenoid in the picture run pretty hot? It is hot to the touch but in my very limited research it is supposed to be fairly warm when doing it’s job. However, the other solenoid mounted next to it is not hot but on the AC side I believe.

[Corey]

Heat is the enemy. It is a warning. It is damaging. There is nothing good about heat and if anything is getting hot, whether it is the engine, transmission, wiring, electrical compnents, etc there is a problem.

If you feel the cables, wires, relays, solenoids, etc are getting hot give some serious consideration to either reducing loads or increasing their capacity by using components with heavier ratings. At this point a good investment might be a device to measure current draw. Fluke makes one that can be clamped around a cable or wire and it will read amps. With that information you can determine if the wires, cables, solenoids, etc are sized properly to carry the load.

In the meantime at the vey least cut back on the power used to see if that cools things down.

Check all electrical connections to make sure they are tight because a loose connection itself generates heat and increases resistance. Look for evidence of excessive heat such as discolored wire insulation or melted plastic at fittings. If you want, take the time to follow every wire or cable and check for problems from the batteries to the devices. Be a cynic and try to determine if anyone ever replaced fuses or circuit breakers with ratings higher than the wire size or loads should require. You need to know your coach is safe. I am not trying to scare you but you do need to find out why your electrical system is getting hot because it should not.

[Archived]

The silver solenoid you show is the common car starter type. It’s a 60+ year old design that works well for high current loads (like car starters). I would expect this solenoid to run warm to the touch and 125 degrees isn’t all that bad at all.

If it reaches the point at which its too hot to touch, then there’s probably an issue.

The solenoid coil is the likely heat source. This type of solenoid was really designed for intermittent service (engine starting) and so other uses can cause the coil to get warm.

I would put the finger touch test on the large terminals. If they are really not then that would worry me. If it’s just the silver can then I would worry about that a whole lot less.

If the large terminals are smoking hot then it’s possible that the solenoid needs to be replaced. 125 degrees is far from smoking hot, however 🙂

Also, I replaced one of these in my 1997 liberty. It was the master relay for all 12V accent lighting. The failure mode wasn’t heat, however, but rather simply failing to provide the current necessary due to corroded internal contacts. In other words, the lights were dim and flickering.

-fred

[Chas]

Fred,

That solenoid (relay) can be purchased as continuous duty or intermittent. Obviouisly it needs to be rated for continuous. As to temps 125 degrees will give you a serious burn. You cannot touch it without getting hurt.

If you want to test this temp heat water to 110 degrees for example and stick your hand in it. Then kick it up to 115 degrees. At that point you are likely to have a burn like a sunburn. Any hotter and the injury gets serious.

[DON]

For my education:

Why would a generator running fully loaded or even over loaded, over heat but not over heat when it is partially loaded? Shouldn’t an over loaded generator kick the 50 or 60 amp breaker and the generator keep running?

Davy

[Archived]

Chris,

How old are the Deka’s? What is the two digit date code on the sticker?

[Archived]

Davy,

That is why I asked the question about the generator although I now suspect there is an answer.

First, Chris had the generator heavily loaded. The information he shared indicated it was likely beyond its capacity so it was clearly operating at its full rated power.

Second, I don’t know how much testing goes into sizing the cooling systems of generator radiators on our coaches by all converters. The more HP is being generated the greater amount of heat that has to be rejected and to do that a lot of things have to be correct. The radiator needs to be of sufficient capacity, the fan has to move adequate amounts of air, the air flow has to be such that it is not resticted, etc.

That being said it is possible the specific installation might not have been tested at full load under ambient conditions that may have contributed to the overheating problem.

All the above is nothing more than speculation.

[Archived]

I just put new one’s in this April so only a few months old. I have had them tested and thus far came out fine.

I am purchasing an infra-red Thermo gun and a really good multimeter for all my electronic connections as suggested by Jon on several threads. Found a good one by Fluke. Looks solid.

I would like to have shot the temps on the solenoid as well as the gen when they were both running hot. And I would like to have tested the shore power I was getting.

AS FOR THE GEN: I truly believe it was completely overloaded and running hot. It burnt a spot in the grass next to our campsite. I shut it down once I noticed. After my lecture, it seemed to operate at a more normal temp. The GEN has air ducts running both ways to keep it cooled and I did check them for restrictions. Nothing there.

I LOOKED IN THE MIRROR AND FOUND THE PROBLEM RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.