[Archived]

With these types of conversations, we know how long it has been between generator chargings, but we always have to make some anecdotal estimation of the draw during that time period (i.e. I was running X, Y, and Z). With these new control systems, it would be nice if it could log kWh between chargings. Maybe they do and I haven’t heard of it.

WRT the inverter question, they simply take power in and invert it from DC to AC when inverting. They pass AC power through when on shore or gen power and they also convert AC to DC to charge the house batteries. They don’t store energy to power appliances.

[Dorel]

Charles,

You have three batteries and when they are in good condition you have a finite number of amp/hours. Based on my experience with my 4 batteries I would expect you could go from 10 at night to 8 in the morning when the generator would start. The actual time is solely based on how much power is being pulled from them.

You reveal your steady current draw from the various phantom loads, ranging from the burglar alarm, temperature sensors, clocks, power to the TVs to retain memory, etc. The .3 and .8 readings are at 120 V so translate them to your 12 volt batteries and they are a steady draw of 11 amps.

Then you have the loads you cannot control from the water pump to the aux compressor. They don’t run all the time, but at 10 amps at 120V they are each pulling around 100 amps at 12V.

The refrigerator may draw somewhere between 50 and 100 amps at 12V when it runs.

Having said all that you should be going longer before you need to have the generator start and that could be a sign on of the batteries may have an issue. I am assuming you did not ever damage batteries by allowing them to go dead or repeatedly get discharged to a low volktage.

[Bernard]

Charles said:

“But last month when I noticed the issue the batteries were charged (generator went to float when monitoring the output of the invertors) and then shut down generator and 6 hours later the batteries are dead and entire panel shut down. THat means that something else is wrong since the generator isn’t even charging the batteries.”

There’s been one deep cycle it sounds like, after the symptomes started.

Do you have a watch-dog to start the generator, or are you using an AGS feature on the inverters?

[Bernard]

I forgot about those dead batteries. Depending on how often something like that happened that can be a contributing factor in the battery condition.

If you have an inverter that allows an equalizing charge you might restore some battery health. The Freedom 25 remote has dip switches on the rear of the panel that will allow you to manually do an equalization charge. I believe the battery manufacturer has information regarding that type charging and the allowable time which you control manually. I haven’t looked it up but you charge the batteries at about 15 volts for an extended period such as 8 hours. That help restore some life to the batteries. Tom may have better information than this.

[Bernard]

Charles and I have been communicating. I asked what is the battery voltage when the Watchdog kicks in and maybe Jeff can answer that question. I’ve seen Auto-Starts as low as 10.8 before starting and that is the road to destroyed batteries. Not that Charles has that going on, but if the Watchdog starts at 60 – 70% of DOD (depth of discharge), the life cycles are going to be shorter than staying at or near 12.2 or 50%. Add in several deep discharges and the battery life is going to be shortened for sure.

You can see the cycles shortened in this graph.

As to Conditioning or Equalizing, I’ve done it with little effect, but you can try it and see if it has any benefit.

[Chas]

So working through some testing on the system.

Battery Voltage after full charge, disconnected: 13.5

Batteries test okay with snapon battery tester (not voltmeter, actual tester).

Inverter shut down: 12

Autostart comes on: Currently testing this now.

So this tells me the one time that the batteries went “dead” they were actually not dead, but the invertors shut down due to them hitting the 12v mark. This was within a 6 hour window (generator was running prior to shutting down with full charge on batteries, when I woke up in the morning to get back on the road, inverters had shut down). Prior to that the coach woudl run on batteries for 8 or more hours. Since then autostart kicks on at 3.5 hours at best.

Hopefully we can determine what the issue is and also determine how my default liberty with freedom inverters/hear interface and watchdog II systems are all working.

[Archived]

I would guess the actual voltage of the batteries you are seeing is the float voltage while the inverters are still charging or immediately after the inverters were shut down from charging.

There is no doubt phantom loads, and there might be another load on the 12V side not reflected in your electrical panel. But I couldn’t rule out the problem being a battery issue. A rather sudden change from 8 plus hours of use to the less than half that amount suggests batteries, maybe just one bad one that is pulling down the others.

[Doug]

So we finshed the watchdog/autostart test and that kicked on at the same level as the inverters shut down (just generator kicked on before the inverters shut down, so they keep going). So nothing there, except for it was about the same time I have been seeing (3.5ish hours).

Tom has been helping me out and talking with Jeff. As for the “phantom” loads, sure they are there, but we haven’t had any changes to the systems. Of course we all know that doesn’t mean anyting with these things.

Next couple options.

1. Put a tester on the inverter and see what the load/draw is compared to what the panel shows. This would of course be the “phantom” load. It would have to be a rather large pull to make this kind of difference. And I would think we would have something else going on with that much of a draw.
2. Pull batteries and do a full test on them. Allow them to settle after full charge and then see if the are draining on their own.
3. Buy a new set of batteries and see how they perform.

So we have options, just need to determine how to go from here. At this point it’s not getting any worse from earlier this summer when it all started. So not sure it’s a 911. We dont have any dry camping needs coming up any time soon, but if we do, we know we have the generator and the batteries will get us 3.5-4 hours or use. That and I know understand the system even more then I did yesterday, so all in all it was a good day 🙂

[Peter]

Hope you are able to isolate the problem before you need to replace all batts! Surely a single batt or two at most should give you a cure if you don’t find anything else. Good luck!

[Archived]

Charles if I put mine on auto start it takes 14 hours before it starts fridge on inside and bay fridge on and phantom loads , if I start it at 24.4 it is about 6 hours that’s at 50% mine has four 8Ds lifelines , the auto start is to low on the watch dog , I am doing a test on mine to see if I dry camp and to count how many times the auto start is used how long the batteries will last unless I get up and start it in morning and to see how long the batteries last compared to always starting at 12.2 or 24.4, 50% we will se if they go five years or not, I have already done the test if I always started Gen at 24.4 or drive or plug in to shore power

Dekas will go about 6 hours when new before they get to 24.4. They will last about 3 and 1/2 years before they start to go to about 3 to 2 hours to 24.4 if you use the auto start they will last about 1 and 1/2 years and then they will last about 2 hours

Lifelines if you start at 24.4 will last about. 6 to 7 years before they start to fade a little maybe 5 1/2 hours before 50% . We will see if auto start comes on and how many times its used how long they will last because lots of times I get up and start Gen or start driving so it never comes on , this way I will know for sure what’s the best just to let it auto start or to worry about it and start it at 24.4 , if they last 5 years this way I am happy with that and will not worry about starting it at 24.4 I change them at five years anyways so if they can go five years on auto start then why worry about it, it’s a waste of energy , I have better things to do with my time . We will see!!!!

[Gerald]

Digging up an old thread.

Was stopped over night at a rest area and did some power management by turning off switches on the main panel. Had it down to fridge, tv and aft outlets.

Went from 9pm to 7am with no problems.

So other items (microwave, air compressor, water pump, etc) are pulling loads that drain the batteries quickly.

Fridge is a new GE, tvs are flat samsung. Microwave is also new GE.

on my next overnight stop will try to check other components (starting to think it’s the microwave as it had the largest constant draw of all items ).