[Archived]

Possible shorted cell in the hot one? That could make it hotter than the others….

[Archived]

The battery is toast. No other way of saying it.

[gary]

ok , thanks, do you think the breaker kicking off is related to bad battery ? On Vantare I am told everything runs through the inverters and consequently the batteries

[Brady]

Jon is right, the battery is toast. If your batteries are wired individually to positive and negative buss bars, just disconnect until it or the entire bank can be repaced. This is one of the main reasons for the buss bar wiring technique I advocate and is common in he yachting world.

[Rodger]

Gran,

I don’t know how Vantare set up your coach or what charge rate your inverters are set to, but it is entirely possible a bad battery can draw so much charging current the breaker trips.

[AL]

These
batteries are fairly new and although anything is possible, I’m leary
to blame it on one battery. Those of you with Vantare’s, how is the
inverter/battery setup done? Are the banks split in half, one
inverter handling 4 batteries each? Are they wired in parallel and
all 12v or is there series and 24v also? I would like to understand
the setup. I know everything runs through the 4K inverters.

The
AC power main breaker at the bus tripped a couple times and that is
an indication the current draw (amps) exceeded the breaker rating.
Once the breaker trips, the inverters are going to go full tilt to
keep all the AC draws going then when the breaker is reset the
chargers are going to go to bulk charge. The breaker trips again and
the cycle starts all over with the batteries not being brought up to
float the first time and now the inverters are back supplying power
with less than full batteries. Again, the breaker gets reset and the
bulk charging starts all over again at really high amps.

This
process will for sure heat up the batteries, but usually they all get
warm and not just single out one in the bank. Is the battery first
in line when charging, are the cables tight and clean, are all cables
downstream clean and tight, etc, etc.

Suggest you unhook the hot battery, assuming it’s in paralell and take it out of the loop and then see if you have the same problem with the next one.

PS – Granvil has bus bars, so that makes the whole process easier to isolate the hot battery.

[Charles]

On my Vantare (2001 but built in 2000), both inverters get their energy from one 24 volt battery which is made up of four 12 volt batteries wired in series and parallel. On my coach, each battery runs to bus bars and each battery cable is the same length to equalize resistance.

There is a second set of four 12 volt batteries wired in parallel providing energy to all the 12 volt systems. The 24 volt and 12 volt battery banks are not interconnected.

All 120 volt loads do go through the two inverters if the transfer switch is in the normal position. I can switch to shore power only or genset only if need be.

I have switched to “shore power only” a couple of times when I was tripping breakers. This took the chargers inside the inverters off line so I could run all my A/C units at the same time and not trip breakers.

I have since reconfigured one inverter/charger to charge at 1 amp which is forcing the 120 volt loads to be balanced on each leg off the pedestal. I have not tripped a breaker since.

Paul

[Archived]

Good explanation Paul. So when you switch to shore only, you are basically by-passing the inverters, correct?

[Archived]

The sulphur smell is a clue one of the batteries has popped open.

[Brady]

First, congrats to Vantare! They are the only converter I’ve heard of that uses the buss bar and equal length cable method of wiring their batteries.

It’s my understanding that others have had to set their trace chargers such that the charge rate on one charger is substantially less than the other. It sounds like that is what you now have done and, so far, all is well.

One thing that seems strange is that you have a 12V bank of house batteries and a 24V bank of house batteries. Why this is strange is that the discharge rate is now driven by the 12V and 24V loads independently. There’s little chance the loads would be evenly split. Although both battery banks has the same amount of power (watts), the 24V bank has twice the current (amps) capacity. You would have two different inverter/chargers. Although they could both be Trace 4KW units, one would have a 12V charger and the other a 24V charger. The only real benefit to a 12V and 24V bank is that you don’t need battery equalizers, which is typically how 12V is supplied with those having a 24V bank.

I would charge the bank with the hot battery, if it will charge. Once charged, I’d remove the Hot battery (and it’s make, if on the 24V bank) and check the voltage the next day. That will give you a good idea if its the battery.

[Archived]

Up front , I’am no electric expert and most often keep things as built. In dealing with any battery that is “hot” is a no brainer to disconnect and remove.

If you can smell sulphur this is a clue that something internal has shorted out.

Charging the battery bank with the hot battery , this confuses me.

I would never do that for fear of an explosive situation.

I’am just saying Gil.

[Richard]

Al, you’re right. I should have said chargethe battery only if you think it’s good. Tom seemed to think it might be okay. A sulfur smell is seldom good.

The only way a single hot battery can be expected and be considered normal is if the batteries in a bank are wired in parallel and the connections, both positive and negative, to the charger/inverter are off the same battery. This is the worst possible wiring scheme. If this battery bank is being chared at a high current rate the first battery will be warmer than the others.

Given the way this bank is wired, there shouldn’t be a single warm or hot battery.

[Archived]

In our storage building that sulphur smell is unmistakeable. Then comes the checking of each stall to locate the “hot battery”.on the renters RV. The building has 8 private stalls.

The last one had not checked the battery water for about a year on house batteries nearly 5 years old. I’am sure there were probably several cells that just ran out of water.

The automatic battery chargers just keep going.

[Archived]

With a multi-battery battery bank (that was a mouth full) smart
chargers will just keep charging.

Although no one should
fear their battery system, it deserves respect. The amount of current
capacity in these battery banks can easily cause a fire. To reduce the
potential for fire, the batteries need to be maintained and monitored. It’s
critical that protective devices (fuses or circuit breakers) be properly
installed and sized. It’s also critical to inspect wire runs, especially
those carrying high current, for loose connections and the potential for chafing. On my own coach I discovered several places
where the high current carrying wires were too close to objects that could lead
to chafing.

I know of 2 late model XL coaches with Guest battery chargers on
the chassis bank that had disastrous results.
In one case the charger case physically melted and deposited hot case
goo on the cover over the chassis batteries.
The battery cover actually melted.
This owner was lucky, the charger failed before it became worse. The other owner likely had the same
beginnings, but it was much worse. His
coach burned. Because his coach was in a
shared storage building his fire spread beyond his own coach.

Battery Banks…respect them…maintain them

[Archived]

I talk about our RV storage rental units from time to time . Each stall is private, front concrete staging area @ 125 feet back from doors.

Each private stall is 60 feet long, 15-16 feet wide inside, city water, electric, sewer, heated , no need to winterize coach, 14 foot electric entry. The Hilton of RV storage in the midwest. 100 % rented 6 years. They come and rarely leave.