[Dan]

Thanks, Mark, that is exactly the backup I needed. Coupled with Diane’s comments, I continue to build confidence that I was told what I was told.

Frank emailed me about this just now. By no means do I intend to throw him under the bus. Hopefully, I have been absolutely fair in my assesment so far, but to be certain I will say that he is adamant that the service was never promised as “unlimited”. I see no difference other than semantics in unlimited vs. no caps vs. no overages. Also, I must say that my original post mentioned $800 because I did it from memory after I immediately threw out the bill. I was just reminded that it was $683 in overages plus the $80 monthly. To me that equals $763 which with standard rounding is $800, but I do not want to overly state my case and hopefully you can see where I went wrong in my figures, though I am not sure the difference is even germaine.

[Archived]

To All:

I would first like to say that I never stated that the internet access would be “unlimited”, the plan that is offerd by Liberty Coach through Verizon is a Business to Business Shared plan of 10GB/month at $800/month, and I have consistantly stated that the data would be ‘Shared” over the fleet of coaches, as the fleet expands so does the data. As mentioned earlier in the blog, you can research this, it is a pass through from Verizon to Liberty Coach, with no administrative charges being collected for the effort. Liberty Coach has also been subsidizing this by activating additional SIM cards, not installed in coaches, to increase the data pool in an effort to anticipate any overages, to date we have 13 which Liberty Coach is paying $800/month. I will be providing additional information regarding this in the near future after our meeting with Verizon which will include collecting reports on individual data usage to provide to all that have the service, at this time we are purchasing the largest data plan available. Each individual has the option to get their own data plan from their own carrier, the challange for most is that an individual typically can not get a static IP address which is required to use the Liberty i-Link system and for Liberty Coach to remote into the systems to make changes or customer requested updates; which many have taken advantage of.

Frank Konigseder

[Chas]

Karl,

I have no clue what you are talking about when you use words like Napster, cloud, etc. but while I agree if you are told unlimited that is what something means. But what I cannot get past is the concept that usage should be within reason.

To avoid a discussion I don’t understand about internet usage I compare this conversation to eating at a buffet. I suppose I could make a very good argument for going into Golden Corral and filling my plate endless times during the course of the day for $8.95 and leaving most of it while I go up for another plateful. While doing that might be seen as allowable, it makes my practice one which may put the program in jeopardy. I have no clue if the industry on average makes money or not but I do know if everyone took full advantage it would not be long before my habits end up shutting down a program that otherwise may have worked if everyone exercised a little concern about the impact.

You are likely to win this battle, but I don’t think the outcome for the entire program is going to be good.

[Frank]

frank,
you reselling the Verizon pooled data is dangerously close to being an ISP, which puts you in a very grey area. If you do not have a valid signed agreement with those who are taking part of that shared data, they are only responsible for the $800 a month you agreed to.

if I were you, I would review your data bandwidth and limits with Verizon and loom at how they can limit an individual device from the pool, so you can control the overall pool without going over as well ad not limiting those that don’t hog the data. That will also allow you to manage each user on a cse by case basis.

Karl, don’t be throwing your kids under the bus 🙂 we know it was you showing off your ability to control your coach from two states away 😉

[Jimmy]

Charles and Jon,

Thank you very much for your comments, as I mentioned we will be meeting with Verizon to review the future of our program and what policies and or changes will need to be put in place. We have had this program in place for better part of 3 years and have not until recently encountered any issues.

[Archived]

I appreciate your thoughts, Jon, and have an analogy I think may help.

You probably have a well where you live, I do. Well water is not metered like city water is. I do not take Navy showers here in the country where my water is “endless” just because I could do so. There is little to any downside if I want to stay in the shower all day as the electric costs to pump the water are minimal and the water itself drains to a septic tank and drain field where it works it’s way back to my pump over time.

[Billy]

But like internet data a well does have a cost associated with unlimited use.

Obviously there is the cost of the electric to run the pump, which is almost meaningless, but while it may not seem like there is a limit on a well there is. Some will flow water at rates greater than can be pumped and those are the limitless wells, but if you share that well with 10 friends and they also allow unlimited flow it is n’t long before no one can use the well because its limits have been exceeded.

In the case of the Liberty plan from what little I understand you are all sharing the well.

[Bill]

Yes, but just like those in California with water shortages. This didn’t happen overnight. California didn’t all of a sudden issue fines for using too much water. Everyone was made aware of the water shortage, subsequently they were notified that restrictions would be in place soon followed by fines for those using more than their allotment of water.

So back to the original post, if you were told there were no data restrictions in place when you signed up for the $80/month then quite simply you shouldn’t be charged additional fees for how much data you use. If more coaches have been added to Liberty’s service and shortages might be looming then Liberty should have the courtesy of informing its users of the issue before slapping them with a large bill without warning.

[Dick]

Glad to see Frank is on here.

Liberty claims to be the best, they charge 150k to 200k more than any other converter and on new builds it’s out of sight.

Yet there are how many programs like this out there? Let’s say there was 20k in overages on this program. Correct me if my numbers are wrong. Why wouldn’t the so called big kid on the block handle this in house.

Instead demand letters are sent out and who cares if some knew it was unlimited and some didn’t. Why wasn’t the program stopped, regroup and set some new rate program up and move on.

Even if it was a very large sum of money owed, Liberty should of eaten it.

This is why people like myself and many others out there will not buy a Liberty, the arrogance shines thru.

Is this chicken shit amount of money worth the bad press?

Later

bv

[Peter]

Well said bv, I agree with everything you just said.

PS ; you saved me a lot of typing

Bill S.

[Mike]

Agree 100% bv

[Peter]

I think the bottom line is Frank and his customers will eventually come to a workable solution and then going forward everyone will have a better understanding of what’s expected of the program.

I for for one find my Verizon data plan using my Jetpack at 12 gig a month impossible to control overages. It seems Verizon charges me data usage for all kinds of time that I can’t sort out when viewing the usage. They make is so complicated, it’s almost impossible to sort out. We have 4 devices using data and even if I shut off data to a particular device, the clock keeps ticking no matter what I do.

So I can understand how Liberty could find themselves in deep overages at the blink of an eye. Frank’s explaination that the Verizon fee’s were a pass through, not an income source, in my opinion now has become a large expense would certainly become an issue in any business and finding a solution to stop the bleeding would be reasonable.

No dog in the hunt, just looking in from the outside.

[Peter]

Tom, I just tried T Mobile because they have a plan that can’t be beat, 4 phones with 10GB data each for $120/month, and streaming music and now video doesn’t count towards the limit. They also give you rollover data. They ALSO will give you SIMs for your tablets for FREE that will let you use 200MB per month. Unfortunately, despite being colored red on their map, my area is a giant dead zone. Back to AT&T….

AT&T actually has faster service than Verizon, and in my experience better coverage. They have a new band that penetrates buildings better which helps when we are in town, and probably in my house too for that matter. I got my current plan when they were offering double data for free, but they are currently running an extra 50% data special.

Verizon is super expensive. I would never have chosen them because of that fact alone. Then there is the problem of no 700mHz band so building penetration is poor and in crowded areas they don’t have the bandwidth. When we were in LA the bus data was unusable and I had to resort to using my phone as a hotspot.

[Archived]

If you have a written contract then go to the letter of it. If not your screwed. Rite or wrong. I don’t agree when a family time is spent looking at a screen instead of talking to each other or taking in sights. Several years ago I told my adult children and guest if you need those things when we are together just leave. They only take emergency calls now in my home.(2 or in medical field) and leave the common area. So I’m the bad guy here. Spend the time online and pay the toll. Not good practice on Liberty part not to put it in writing.. Bob

[Archived]

Karl,

I would switch in a heart beat to AT&T, but as much as we travel, Verizon pretty much has the best coverage nationwide. If anything ever changes, I’m history with Verizon.