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Engine won’t start–Series 60
After faithfully starting for the over eight years (if the batteries were charged and OK), the coach won’t start.
We moved it from storage on Sunday to our house and on Monday morning winterized the house. After winterizing I went to start the coach to return it to the storage facility.
Plenty of voltage, spun over robustly, but the engine didn’t fire up. I thought maybe the coolant was low, couldn’t see anything in the sight glass so I put some coolant in; 3.5 gallons until it over flowed. I think the inside of the sight glass needs to be cleaned. Still no start. I’ve flipped the 12 and 24 volt chassis cutouts many times.
Called the Detroit shop in Appleton, explained to service manager, and said I thought maybe the coolant sensor was bad (I’m lazy like some others on the Forum, I like low hanging fruit). He said to unplug the sensor and the computer will ignore it. (Should I have jumpered it?) Still no start.
Read some posts on the Forum. Saw reference to Relay #23 which give the DDEC 12VDC. I pulled that out, couldn’t see any heat deforming, or evidence of arcing and reseated it. Still no start.
I noticed a post where the poster said his no start problem turned out to be the little 12 volt wire from the batteries to the DDEC was loose or compromised and he thought a temp drop caused it to not provide enough electricity to the DDEC. We did have a temperature drop from Saturday to Monday morning, but it was already cooler (low 30’s) on Sunday when the coach started and ran OK. I should check that wire, although when I winterized the coach I didn’t “do anything” in the engine bay. EDIT: All the big wires and the small wires on the chassis batteries are tight, well connected, and look like they are all good connections.
The DD shop in Appleton won’t send a tech to Shawano (outside their “service area”, but would be happy to have the coach towed in … I’m sure he would). Two others to try.
Any suggestions?
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26 Replies
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Seems like an easy way to check ddec power is to flash the codes. Not only will it confirm power but tell you if there is a sensor issue. If good move to fuel.
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If you are looking for low hanging fruit, check CBs 19, 20 and 21 in the rear electric box. Verify they have power and have not tripped. They are for the DDEC.
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Great tip Jon.
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Dick, I had that happen on my 1998 Prevost Series 60. As Jon said, check the breakers above the engine. I had a breaker above the engine fail without tripping. Check each breaker with a test light. Prevost did not have the breaker so they wired around with a fuse. Coach would start from the rear but only turn over from the front drivers seat.
Steve Magown
2001 Featherlite H3
West Monroe, LA -
I had this happen and it was the crank sensor down by the pulley on the passenger side of the motor.
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Checked CB’s 19, 20, 21 … all three gave me 12.1volts on both sides. I presume those CBs are not tripped and OK. Does the red light go on when the breaker trips?
Ran the codes from the dash:
RED flashing–
25-No codes
YELLOW flashing–
16-Coolant Level Sensor (CLS) Voltage High
46-Low Battery Voltage
43-Low Coolant
44-Oil or Coolant High Temperature
Does this mean no “red codes”, only “yellow codes”?
How do we know if the codes are current or old?
Jeff and Lindsay
91 Marathon XL -
Interesting. I believe the low battery voltage has to do with the ddec internal battery voltage and not the chassis batteries. I wonder if that could be the problem. I hope the smart guys chime in to help. Im obviously not one of them. Good luck.
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Ddec 3 or 4 Dick?
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mine is ddec IV. for test purpose only. Jump coolant level sensor wire connector with paper clip. I it starts you have found problem. One other simple test–do any of your batteries show below 12V (engine not running) .We can make a list simple to awe crap.
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I think DDEC 3. Tech should be arriving at 4pm and I’ll confirm.
I tried the paper clip trick already. I ha read that on another “won’t start” post.
Thanks for the responses!
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You said chassis batts were 12.1. That’s not good. They are half dead.
I’m certain you know this but: Our Detroits don’t have a grid heater our glow plugs to heat up the air, they rely on compression heat to ignite the fires. With cold ambient temps and weak chassis batts it may not spin over fast enough to get enough compression/heat to light the fires? -
Those three CB’s 19, 20, 21 were 12.1. Since they are the CB’s for the DDEC my expectation is that those are 12 volt circuits. The voltage meter on the shows around 25 volts.
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“With cold ambient temps and weak chassis batts it may not spin over fast enough to get enough compression/heat to light the fires?”
That’s interesting. I was pretty sure we didn’t have glow plugs and recently confirmed that the engine starts with the cylinders firing based on compression and the fuel being injected at the right instant. I hadn’t thought about cold weather starting.
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12.1V is no-load now add starter draw can easy drop below 11.5V required for ddec to operate. Voltage at battery level is important in no start situation. Just hopeing for a simple solution…
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I had a DDEC internal battery failure on my DDEC V coach. Threw a code, but that was all. I’ve been told that can lead to complete failure, but mine didn’t do that.
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