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Electric Toe Kick Heater–Safe?
Some of you guys are probably going to think I’m “looking for problems where there aren’t any” or maybe even too risk averse to own a coach. But …
Upon our return from Florida last Friday night it has been cold in Wisconsin … as low as 5 below at night and until today single digits during the day time. Too cold to winterize the coach, it sits outside (on the east side of a 24′ building that partially protects it), and is plugged into 50amps.
After reading all the cold weather operation advice on the Forum … I’ve got the electric water heater on, water bay heater set to about 40 or 45 degrees, and had two small 1300 watt or so heaters going in the coach (Liberty gave me only two outlet circuits on the inside of the coach to work with, plug a second heater in a circuit and the breaker trips). Monitoring the temps in the coach I thought I didn’t have enough heat as they go into the very high 30’s and low 40’s one night and having left the toilet room closed there was a little ice in the toilet.
Water bay has always been in the high 40’s to mid 50’s.
So I bought another heater, opened up the bedroom TV compartment, removed the TV which we’ve never used (and probably won’t) to gain access to the outlet for the TV that’s on a separate breaker/circuit. That allowed a third heater which enabled me to put a heater in the toilet room (which I blocked open with a box from the new heater).
I’ve been reluctant to use the toe kick heater. Sixteen year old HOT device in an enclosed space, low in the middle of the coach. I was concerned that if it malfunctioned I’d get a call from a neighbor telling me I left a really, really bright light on in the coach this time. But I gritted my teeth, turned the breaker on, and put it into service Monday afternoon. Not having used it before and with the knob missing and setting it using a needle nosed pliers I had it set a little low as when I check the coach the toe kick was off and temps were in the mid-40’s. So I turned it up a little.
This morning the coach was a comfy 77 degrees …. three small heaters in the coach and the toe kick going. So I set it back a little.
So here is my question: Has anyone ever had trouble with the toe kick heater malfunctioning and putting the coach in danger of fire? Or do the internal controls in the heater and/or the breaker offer adequate protection from something back happening.
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18 Replies
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Dick,
You should not have to worry about the toekick heater. The elements are encased inside a steel box. I would be more worried in the cheap walmart heaters (an asumption) catching on fire before I would that toekick. How about running the wabasto during the really cold temps.. I guarantee it will heat the hell out of the coach and the water bay..
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Thanks Steve. That makes me feel more comfortable. I thinking the Webasto will get fired up when the temps are expected to be below 10 to 15 below.
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Dick, we have used that toe kick heater once. And I know this does not answer your question – you may find that the thermostat is very sensitive, making it difficult to find the desirable setting. I never got it right the one time we used it, i.e. to hot or to cold.
Your missing knob presents the opportunity to fab an attachment for a degree wheel (normally used to time the crankshaft with the cams) with a reference pointer so you can fine tune the temp setting.
Regarding safety, since I didn’t build it, I’m not confident that the area around the heater is fire proof. Plus I would rather not replace one that is built in when it quits, just throw away these pelonis ceramic cube heaters (used while sitting at home through winter) when they’re done (still waiting). I still check on things about every day even though I think we are safe and have been for the last nine winters.
Regarding amp draw, don’t know. I would think running three 1500 watt heaters would draw more than that one toe kick heater.
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I’m not as optimistic as Steve.
As built they are safe. In the real world I see two issues. The first is because of their location they fill with dog hair, dust bunnies, lint, etc. That presents a fire hazard if they are not periodically cleaned.
My second concern is the way the ones I have seen are wired. Typically they have some thermal protection so if the fan quits, the heat generated by the heating element is shut down if it reaches a certain point. I have seen a couple of toe space heaters end up cycling on the over temp thermostat and if one fails because it was never designed as a switch, and the failure is with the contacts welded closed it is realistic to assume the body temp of the heatter is going to be very hot. So the installation of one has to be taken into consideration.
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Dick there was a recall on some of the early toe kick heaters around your year of coach
I talked about it but not many gave it much thought but if you look at HVAC about Dec 13 of 2013 you will see my post so
It’s bullshit if anybody tells you they are ok until you know what kind you have I replaced all mine in the older coaches with the new ones. There was a big lawsuit over some of those toe kick heaters. ,
Read my post on them it tells you which ones are no good mostly early models , I think up to about 2000 or so -
I replaced all of my toe kick heaters. Recall was for heaters made before 2000, I think. I did it after reading Peter’s post a couple of years ago. I got them from toolfetch.com, Cadet UC101B 1000W 120V
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Thanks Peter and Bill. I’ll go outside and turn it off. Tomorrow I’ll pull the unit out and look at it.
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I have used the radiator heaters over 10 years in a barn and have never had a failure. I purchased a smaller version for the bus but have indoor storage and haven’t needed it. Even a long cold spell here doesn’t compare to what a lot of members deal with but the heaters have done a great job in the barn and have their own thermostats. -
I have a hard time trusting the toe kick heaters on their own. Something about a glowing metal box that makes me a little uneasy. If my coach requires heat with me not being there I’ll use the aqua hot via its electric heat method. Not sure if the electric method produces enough heat for your heat registers in the coach in the extreme temperatures most of you are talking about, but for me in the south it has heated my coach more than adequately. But that’s also with me staying in the coach. Might be an option for some of you reluctant to use plug-in or toe kick heaters. Plus it also helps keep your plumbing bay toasty, for a Royale anyways.
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Dick, see my other post………….
Seriously, at the very best any auxiliary heat solution to cold outside temps is like takng aspirin Motrin, Aleve, or Advil for a brain tumor. All might relieve the pain, but the real solution is to deal with the tumor. In this case the brain tumor is outside storage.
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Dick,
I pulled mine out and cleaned it and looked it over. From what I saw the construction was much better than the little toster types that you buy at Ace Hardware or Walmart. But as with any type of resistance heating, there is always a chance of a failure from a connection,or a fan or limit switch burning up. If the fan quits and the limit fails the toster coils usually burn into and the heat stops or it will ground to the case and trip your breaker. But… If all fails you get a fire… The heater type Tom posted is the safest. We use them for tempory heat for customers who heat is out and will take a day to get it back going or replaced.
I was totally unaware of the failure with the toetick heaters. Knowing that, I would never run it either.Peter, do you remember what brand you replaced yours with?
Does the Wabasto use too much fuel to use them as a heat source if you store ourside?
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Based on the discussion here I opened the toe kick heater under the sink. It was not pretty. I was surprised it was as well as it did. Essentially these are little vacuums with the heater element being the filter.
I still have the original version with the exposed heater element. I don’t leave them on when we are not on the coach but it is time to bite the bullet and upgrade to the enclosed element version when we get home. Even instructions for the newer model says to clean every 6 months. Probably not a bad idea.
Gerald
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Steve, a webasto uses very small amounts of diesel fuel per hour relatively speaking, but with the circulating pump and the fans at the various heat exchangers through the coach the webasto tends to draw a lot of DC power, which in turn means you need power to the ooach to keep the batteries fully charged.
If you have a hook up with ample power for convenience the type of heater Tom posted with several used is probably as good as any other option. Generally speaking the best means of preventing freezing is to drive south.
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Since Dick has 50amp power, and if the Wabasto uses a small amount of fuel, I can’t see that durning really cold weather it wouldn’t be a good way to keep your coach very warm and toasty. Most Wabasto’s need a little run time anyway..
I am surely not aguing about using the electric oil filled heaters. You all know much better than I ….
Mine is sleeping in 65deg temps……..
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