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Computer re-program
I’ve got a 1994 Prevost Liberty and my tech is asking for me to get some information “Lost Program in PLC” and just waiting to hear back from Liberty. Anyone have that program out there or experienced this in the past?
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11 Replies
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That would indicate you lost power to the PLC and the backup battery failed. Newer PLCs restore the program from non-volatile memory. Which PLC are you referring to?
Gerald
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I’m not sure which as he was able to go into the computer and found a bad module and is now replacing that and thanks for the response
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We had a customer with that era coach and was told by Liberty in Stuart that they had data file losses for that time-period and would have to come bring the coach to Frank to have him write a new program for the coach. Researching the situation, I found out a few things:
1) That era Allen Bradley memory would decay away within 18 months without power to the processor. After that, a new program had to be loaded into the processor module.
2) We DID find a competitor in the area who would help with replacing and programming a different computer in the coach for around $15,000 out the door.
We had a customer with a water damaged PLC of that vintage which had to be replaced and reprogrammed and the bill was around $25,000 from Liberty. Any way you go it will not be a cheap fix and it will be time-consuming process of getting the new program written and debugged, so plan on the fix taking several weeks or more.
Just an FYI and GLAD for you it was just a bad i/o module. Not nearly as costly!
Ben @ Parliament
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Before doing anything contact Jeff at ETLC. He might be able to help.
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One more reason I like the concept of my classic edition, Nothing wrong with simple.
Now dont get me started on Liberties implementation of air conditioning 😉
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Part of the reason complexity has crept into the equation is it offers goodies not likely available with good sound basic systems. Things can be done remotely and some of those things have the WOW factor that sells buses.
But for the person spending as much money as the new buses cost, repairing them with either upgrades or just repairs amounts to pocket money compared to what it cost to buy the bus in the first place.
The cost of the complexity and its repairs however becomes very disproportionate to the value of the coach as it ages and when just reprogramming a PLC costs what might be 25% of the market value of a coach we begin to see the coaches that are older becoming worth a whole lot less if they are saddled with many expensive and proprietary systems. The price to reprogram is high because those with the ability have owners in a very difficult position.
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Are the skills and abilities necessary to reprogram or make simple changes akin to rocket science or brain surgery? It would seem to me that if one would acquire the skills and develope the abilities to do the work, that a nice cottage industry could be developed. or am I missing something?
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The software or program is not available to the public and that is where the ability to charge serious money comes in.
If the program, code, software or whatever makes the system work were readily available the cost to reprogram something would be dirt cheap. That is akin to proprietary drugs. Those protected by patents and that are important for health are outof sight pricewise. But as soon as they become generic the price tumbles.
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What does the PLC control? What are the inputs/outputs?
There are lots of programmable microcontrollers with lots of input/output options available dirt cheap. The software development environments that come with those microcontrollers are easy to learn. Might be a fun project to build a replacement.
Gerald
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a system like the’s would be b easier and cheaper to implement from the ground up then to reverse engineer and “fix”. Without the original source, it’s nearly impossible. A system from 1994 wasn’t using user friendly plug and play components with extensible API”s and platforms.
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All systems from Crestron to Allen Bradley are repairable and capable of being programmed….As stated the issue is being able to reverse engineer some of these systems….Much like the converters that are no longer in business and used some type of system to control the coach…Once you have done a lot of these with out the original code then the task is easier as you are familiar with the conversions and what things are that are being controlled. We have spent a lot of time and energy to be able to “take control” of any conversion out there….
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