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750K mile refresh list and cost ?
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It would help me immensely to know where you spent $30,000 on your chassis. An itemized breakdown would be great.
The seated coach I’m looking at has mid 300K miles on it. New tires (365s), new rebuilt engine and transmission in 2018. Coach batteries are so so. Paint and exterior are good. Everything works on it. It has OTR air and it works. It has new windshields.
It has been serviced regularly. Was last in service a year ago. Was in a tour fleet that didn’t get used in winter. Owner selling because COVID19 killed his business. Owner appears to be knowledgeable and honest about things and kept his fleet in good shape. This bus would be shuttling tourists right now if not for COVID19.
The plan is to put 2 slideouts in it and build it almost exactly like Featherlite’s Angel Fire 0310 design over the next few years. http://www.featherlitecoaches.com/inventory/featherlite-coaches-0310/ http://www.featherlitecoaches.com/2021-featherlite-coaches-0310-angel-fire/
I’ve owned large 5th wheel trailers since the late 90s. I’ve very familiar with RV systems. I’m a very good mechanic, fabricator and home renovator. I’m a good SS and aluminum welder.
I plan to zero out the chassis and prep it for conversion by doing the following:
– replace the coach batteries
– rebuild the brakes
– check air bags
– rebuild the IFS bushings and steering components
– possibly swap in a locking differential carrier. It doesn’t have a locker.
– replace the driver seat, clean up/modernize the cockpit a bit
– put in 2 driver side slides
– double check the radiator.
– update the engine cradle for a 20K hitch.
– detail the engine compartment.
At that point I have a decently prepped empty shell ready for conversion. I reno’d a high end house 5 years ago to rave reviews. I don’t see building out the shell to be much different.
I’ve been looking at Prevosts for a while now. I’m familiar with S60s, so I’m not afraid of them. The biggest scare most owners get with these coaches is the transmission failing, maybe due to overuse of the retarder ?
The MCI chassis seems to have a lot more problems – rusting out air beams, cracking rear sub frame, electrical gremlins on newer coaches, etc. I’m not seeing any of that in the H3 Prevost coaches. And the Prevost chassis is designed for slides, unlike the MCI.
I’m not interested in a SS coach. And I want an S60, not a 71 or 92 Series engine.
These coaches haven’t changed much in design the last 20+ years. Same basic engine, transmission, cooling system, frame, suspension, etc. Not because Prevost has been dropping the ball, but because they’ve withstood the test of time.
Parts seem to be readily available and reasonably priced. I don’t see any OMG, here is a $10K catastrophe that we need to deal with on these coaches, aside from the transmission.
A pre 2004 bus is simpler because it has no EGR to deal with. Fuel economy with the 12.7 will be as good as it gets for these buses.
I can buy a lower mileage (150K) conversion, but most of that era don’t have slides and they are listed in the $150-$190K range. It doesn’t make sense to me to pay that kind of money for a low mileage coach and then rip it apart to get what I want. And 2006 seated coaches sell for about $200K and have similar or higher miles (300-400K) with the original engine and transmission.
I wouldn’t blink an eye at buying a highway tractor with 350K and converting it to pull a large 5th wheel. I’m not sure why I am supposed to be afraid of a 1998 Prevost with mid 300K.
I’m not worried about resale value. I’ll build it like I want and keep it through my retirement. I’m really looking forward to ditching my diesel pickup truck !
It’s not going to be an over the top build. But it will be functional and homey, which is what we want.
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what would you expect your all in budget to be?
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I break this project into 2 parts. 1) Buying and prepping the shell and 2) converting the shell into a motor coach.
I’m still working on the budget for the conversion part. I sent plans off to the cabinet maker that I used for my house reno for quotation.
Right now I am focusing on the chassis. I would like to buy a chassis, strip it, and zero it out for $40-$50K. Another 5K or so to put the double slide structure in it. I’ll be doing a lot of this work myself, so most of my cost here is for parts and materials alone.
An inframe engine rebuild is about $2800 for the kit and $2200 for a rebuilt head if it needs one. Add in another $500 for misc and that basically zeros out the engine provided the bottom end is good. A turbo is about $800 if it needs one. Injectors are $200ish each, exchange. Even though they call it an in frame, I’d probably pull the engine cradle for easier access when I do this.
My experience with DD S60 engines is that the later serial number low mileage (300K) 12.7L engines should not be in need of a complete overhaul by any means. They are probably good to 600K in coach service, which will be more miles than I plan to put on it.
I’ve heard a new 20K lb engine cradle is $1500 from Prevost.
I’m probably going to run Koryo K526 385/65R22.5 tires all round because I need more traction and floatation. Speed rating K, load rating 9910 lbs. Ply rating L. These are an all position tire, so they can be rotated. My friend runs them on his truck fleet. Purchasing through him they will cost me about $300/tire. So a set of new tires is $2400, less whatever credit I get for the existing ones. I will time out tires before I wear them out, so I’ll probably arrange a deal with my friend where I regularly buy new tires and rotate them into his fleet after a couple years.
IFS rebuild looks to be about $1000 in bushings to do everything. New shocks are about $200/piece. Not sure about the steering linkage. Probably $500 in replacement joints. Steering box should be OK as is.
CAC should be inspected for cracks and leaks. I’m a TIG welder, so I can clean that up easily enough. Sounds like the radiator should be at least cleaned.
New belts, air cleaner element, oil change, filter change. New coach batteries. Alternator might need replacing. They cost about $600 exchange.
Brake system – rebuild whatever needs rebuilding. Chase down all air leaks.
Wiring is a big unknown, but probably not a huge cost.
Update the driver’s compartment with a new seat, maybe a new steering wheel. Detail it.
Check the drive shaft. Check the rear suspension bushings. Check the rear shocks.
I’ll add a jake brake kit to the engine if it doesn’t have one. I think that costs about $1000. I’ll also swap the diff carrier for a limit slip if it doesn’t have one. A good take out carrier is $1000, less whatever I get for mine.
The big, big unknown is the transmission. Not sure what to say about it. I’ll prefer to find a coach that doesn’t have a retarder on it because I feel retarders overheat these transmissions. If I was faced with replacing a B500 I would consider swapping in an Ultrashift, which work with DDEC II and newer DDs. A good take out 10 speed Ultrashift, harness, control and clutch will run about $5K.
The slide out frame structures themselves look to take about $1500 of aluminum.
A non slide out coach frame needs to be upgraded with gussets and some plating as the factory ones are. The SS plate (1/4″) for the gussets will cost about $1000. I’ll cut these parts on my plasma table and weld them in myself.
The 2 slide outs will each need a motor, drive shaft and drive gears as well as 2 linear bearing assemblies each. Each slide will need an inner and outer seal.
We’ll need to blank out 1 window on each side of the coach. Not sure how that is done yet. We’ll want to add 3 opening windows to the coach.
I want to convert the front cap to the cat eye headlights and single piece windshields if the coach has a square headlight front cap. I’d probably leave it if it has the small round headlight cap.
I know a couple professional truck painters who will help me prep the coach and who will spray it for me. It won’t be a $50K paint job. More like a $5K paint job. But it should look pretty good when we are done.
At that point I’ll have a completely zeroed out shell ready to convert. I think I can get it done in a year.
My plan with the conversion part is to use some of the finishing trades I used in my house reno to help. I’ll do all the structure, electrical, plumbing and RV system stuff myself. I’ll purchase all the finishing materials and use trades to install the flooring, tile, stone and cabinetry. That worked well on our house reno. I see no reason why it wouldn’t work well in a coach conversion.
Timeline: 3 years. Kinda like renovating a vacation home – slow but steady.
Thoughts ?
Jeff and Lindsay
91 Marathon XL -
Rational.
If I spent $5-600K on a completed coach I’m not going to get what I want and in 5 years it will depreciate $100-$150K.
I drive Ford Superduty trucks because I own a big 5th wheel trailer. These trucks are not fun to own out of warranty and that means replacing them every 5-7 years. A new Superduty, nicely equipped, sells for $80K. I’d drive a half ton truck if I didn’t have a big trailer to pull. Much cheaper to purchase and way nicer as a daily driver. Also way easier to own out of warranty.
My current 5th wheel is 10 years old. It has served us well, but is getting to the point where I’m considering replacing it. I always end up doing a lot of mods to trailers I buy to make them last and work well for us. It seems to take a couple years to get the bugs out of trailers and get them set up properly.
5th wheel trailers are high maintenance because they generally aren’t built the best. The faucets need replacing, the hot water heater is too small, they don’t come with batteries, solar, generator, etc. The tires are junk. The brake systems are marginal. The axles and suspension are under sized. Toy haulers are known for their back ramp and de lamination issues.
I think it is time to try a new approach.
I look at the chassis part like buying a Superduty to pull my 5th wheel. One will never really wear out a Prevost chassis. Stuff will break and wear out on the Prevost, but it has a much, much longer service life and it isn’t stupid expensive to fix. It isn’t cheap buying and running Superduty trucks. So I figure if I zeroed out a Prevost chassis, that would be a good investment. I’m actually kicking myself for not doing this about 10 years ago when we bought our last 5th wheel trailer.
As far as the conversion itself goes, I’ve been investing in the RV systems part of that every time I buy a new trailer, both in the initial purchase and in the maintenance side. I get that things change and things like solar, inverters, batteries, etc. get better all the time. But trailers also come equipped with RV quality stuff that either doesn’t do what is really needed or needs maintenance. So I don’t think outfitting a coach with proper RV systems is going to be much different than what I’ve been doing. At least now I will do it right the first time.
As far as the living space part of the conversion goes, I look at it like renovating a small condo vacation property. We’ll set a budget and build the best we can within that budget. I’ll be very happy to be investing in residential grade quality components rather than RV quality components. Yes it costs somewhat more, but you also get much better quality and functionality.
It’s not cheap to travel, no matter how you do it.
You can go on car vacations but you really need something like a Sprinter van to bring everything along and have everyone comfortable. Hotels aren’t cheap. Restaurant food gets old real fast, to say nothing of the expense.
You can fly places. Airfare is expensive. Hotels are a hassle. You can hardly bring anything along.
And the experience just isn’t the same on car or airplane vacations. Not even close.
Our trucks and 5th wheels have served us very well. We’ve gotten a ton of enjoyment from using them. But big diesel pickup trucks are a hassle to use day to day and depreciate quickly. And you know my thoughts on trailers.
I’ve thought about downsizing trailers and trucks. That works fine for a few weeks in the summer. But as soon as you start spending a month on the road, those small trailers become pretty limiting. And then you are dealing with RV quality issues again.
RV motorhomes are out of the question. Probably the worst compromise of all.
So I think it is time to try a coach. I’d be very happy if I could build a conversion and enjoy using it for the next 10-15 years. I’d be fine if it needed a refresh at that point.
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Best of luck to you.
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This is a huge undertaking. I hope you will share your project in the home builders section. I wish you the best of luck with this endeavor as well.
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Wow! You are certainly passionate about this plan.
kinda reminds me of some guy named Chief that completely tore down an older Prevost XL and rebuilt it inside and out. (I think he spent 4x what I have into mine)..he also documented it on YouTube. You might google that and get some ideas. Please update once you get going.best
Todd
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It appears that the deal on the bus I was looking at has fallen through because he got a better offer and I’m not willing to match it.
I also spent some time looking at older converted coaches and found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vjqxs6UHsQ For $150K, it would have been perfect.
I need to think about this some more. Just because I can do something doesn’t mean I should.
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Buy a baby like this for around $50,000 and spend a few thousand on goodies if needed and drive the wheels off. Just make sure it’s maintained by somebody like Prevost that does a level 3 service once a year with records and these older, low mileage, 1st or second owner coaches will last a while. Wouldn’t be the new with the latest technology but cheaper than a Ford 1 ton and trailer. Have enough left over to fix what breaks.
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Someguy wrote: I need to think about this some more. Just because I can do something doesn’t mean I should.
Very, very profound statement.
I looked at the video of the 2001 Marathon in Denver. That seems like the price is in the reasonable ballpark. If you research the market you’ll have a better feel.
Keep us posted as you make this journey. Good luck!
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Glens, If I did not already own a Prevost, I would be all over your low mileage Prevost at your price. Darrell
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Poor Glen, The boy has so much money he’s decided to hold the great COVID-19 bus give-away! I remember a time when Glen was poor and humble. Ok, maybe not poor?
Harry
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Someguy,
I did read your plans and ideas with great interest. I think you are brave. I was where you are now and I can tell you that even though it’s a good try, I think you will be disappointed and your math is somewhat off.
About 4 years ago I looked at many highway coaches and started the journey into Prevost ownership. I did the calculations as you did. Tried to make it work. I can tell you. It won’t.
Here is why.
Fast forward to today. I steered away of the highway coach idea for many reasons and I am glad I did. I bought a Marathon coach that was in need of some interior TLC. The Prevost part, with only 90K miles, was in immaculate condition with all maintenance records available but the coach part was really outdated and worn as it was used a hospitality unit at racing events. I did all the work myself. over 1300 hours to update the interior. Total cost: close to $100K without labour cost.
You mentioned updating the front and rear. I did that. All Prevost parts. I was lucky to find the complete front end of a wrecked bus and a nice tailgate. Cost all set and done: $13K
Let’s move to paint. I repainted my coach. You mentioned $5K. Sorry but not even close. I did all the prep work myself. Sanding, small repairs. It’s a lot of surface. Just materials, such as primer, paint, clear coat, sandpaper exceed $10k. It will spend about 3 days in the paint booth. Unless your buddy will do it for free, raw cost (heating etc) will be at least $5K.
I own a RV repair shop. You mentioned a budget of $1000 for a slide. Besides the fact that it will be a very complicated adventure I feel you are underestimating the complexity as a Prevost is fundamentally different build than any standard RV you will far exceed that amount. Even if you use crap RV slide products we fix on a daily bases because the are underpowered and poorly engineered the raw cost will be in the thousands.
Imagine you bought a highway coach. Now you have a high mileage bus, with limited interior height (highway coaches are lower). You poured your hearth and soul in this multi year project and you will end up with a coach that will be worth pennies on the dollar of what you put into it. Let’s face it. Buyers will pay proper money for a Marathon, Liberty etc. but nobody will pay good money for a home build conversion. Regardless on how well you build it.
Don’t get me wrong here. I have no doubt of your ability to pull it off but I think you will be wiser to find a quality name brand converted coach and “fix” it up to your liking. There are many out there you can buy for a price that won’t be much more than a decent highway coach.
Either way good luck with your adventure.
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Good post, rrental.
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RRental right on point, especially on the paint topic.
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