[Dick]

Seated coach? Converted luxury motorhome? (If so, by whom?) Entertainer coach? DIY conversion of seated coach?

[Steve]

The starting point should be the log books or maintenance records.

It is easy to list items that age or wear out, but there is no sense replacing them if they have service life left.

Having said that my first question is if it is a motor home chassis? The Prevost level low system not likely found on seated coaches has a lot of valves, push in air fittings and is a leading contender for air leaks which result in the leans. If it is a seated coach the complexity of the valving and number of air fittings is going to be a lot less and not as high on the listof priorities.

Obviously brakes, including pads, brake chambers and discs need to be inspected and replaced if needed.

I would look for hub seal leaks and replace any leaking. On that vintage it is just the drive axle with hub seals. On the steer and tag the sealed bearings need to be checked.

Shocks, air bags suspension valves, every push in fitting, air dryer, air compressor, hoses, belts, turbo?, in fact all engine accessories, suspension bushings, U-joints, all are potential replacement items but if they are good it can be because they have been recently replaced or just haven’t worn out.

If it is a motorhome or entertainer conversion add a lot of other items to the list of potential replacement items. If it has slides there is a potential need for slide seal. Controls for the slides are things that shouldn’t get replaced if they are working. They are expensive and I think replacements are rebuilt units.

I would certainly want to check the radiator and charge air cooler. The radiator could be partially blocked if coolant was not proper or well maintained, and the original CAC on that vintage coach was of poor quality and leaked. The fan clutch has been another service item.

All hoses in the turbo system should be replaced.

I hope you are planning on doing your own work because if you think the parts are going to be expensive the labor to refresh the coach is going to be pricey, and will make a low mileage coach seem cheap.

[Archived]

Have you ever owned a Prevost ?

AL

[Archived]

No, I’ve never owned a bus or a Prevost. I’ve done my share of work on heavy equipment though and I have a pretty well equipped garage. I’d do an inframe if I had to.

What makes a Prevost any different than a higher mileage highway tractor? What are the “got yas” on a Prevost?

Judging by the comments on a couple forumns it seems the H3-45s are built better than MCIs. Am I right ?

[Steve]

Where is the CAC on a Prevost ? In pictures I see the fan and I see the engine. Where is the CAC ?

[Art]

you would be much further ahead to buy a Prevost that is a motorhome….Dollar for dollar comes out ahead

[Bill]

The CAC on EGR coaches is along side of the radiator. On pre-EGR it was stacked with the radiator.

[Archived]

Thanks

[Jim/Chris]

I’m getting a sense you may be considering refreshing an entertainer coach, or maybe converting a seated coach.

No matter how cheap the chassis is due to age or mileage, by the time you get done it will be far more expensive than buying an older motor home conversion. Or it will be a less well done and conceived amateur built conversion. Fixing an old high mileage chassis can be expansive even if only the cost of parts can be considered because an old high mileage chassis is never going to be equal to an old low mileage motor home chassis.

Please do not take that as an insult about your skills, intellect or creativeness. It is a reflection of how expensive it is to try to duplicate a professional conversion. But even more so it is a testament to how much knowledge converters have with respect to interior and system design, space utilization, and quality. It is almost impossible for an amateur conversion to match a professional conversion due to the knowledge gained by converting and servicing hundreds of coaches.

[Steve]

Thanks for the advice.

What was the HP rating of the 12.7 in a 1998 H3-45 ?

What are the engine differences to bring it up to the power of the later models ?

What features is a 1998 bus missing that later buses have ?

What are the pitfalls of buying a 1998 versus a newer bus of the same mileage and condition ?

[Steve]

How high is up?

Your question is as specific as that question. An average motor home conversion of 20 to 25 years old is most likely to have under 200,000 miles. It will not have been rode hard and put away wet by drivers who don’t have a penny in them.

The motor home conversion may have some years on it which impacts parts that age, mostly those that depend on rubber like air bags, valves, etc., but it is not going to have miles that wear our not only the rubber parts, but bearings, the chassis structure, all rotating parts, etc. The cycle times on U joints, suspension bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc are going to be far less affected.

Knowing what I know about coaches there is no way in the world I would every think I could breath new life into a high mileage chassis and have a high quality motor home conversion, unless it was based on a low mileage motor home conversion and not a seated coach, executive coach or entertainer.

[Harry]

Not all of us want to spend > $500K on a coach. Some people are happy to turn a skoolie into an RV. Different strokes for different folks.

BTW, for DDEC IV 12.7L engines, non EGR and EGR (EPA 2004) max power was 500HP @2100 RPM or 500HP @1800 RPM, 1550ftlbs @ 1350 for both. DDEC iV started 1998.

I haven’t verified what engine model numbers that power level applies to.

DDEC III engines were rated to lower HP. The DDEC IV engines used wastegated turbos and thus could control boost better. DDEC III engines didn’t use wastegated turbos.

–

[Steve]

Someguy you wrote: What are the pitfalls of buying a 1998 versus a newer bus of the same mileage and condition? And also referenced spending $500k on a motorhome.

You don’t have to spend $500K to get a nice Prevost motorhome. We bought a 1999 Liberty XLV in 2014 for a touch over a quarter of that. It had 72,000 miles on it. I don’t think there are major pitfalls in buying a pre-2000 coach. Before I did my Prevost investigation, I thought there would be.

We’ve put some money into it after our purchase. Some planned money immediately because the tires and batteries had aged out, because we didn’t get maintenance records, and because stuff was 15 years old and it won’t last forever.

Then we put some unexpected money in … OTR Carrier A/C compressor died on us, the then 16 y/o original refrigerator died on us, one inverter died (I replaced the then 17 y/o modified sine wave inverters inverters with new full sine wave versions w/more watts), the water heater started to leak (17 y/o), and most recently the radiator was re-cored and the fan clutch was replaced).

Was the money more than I expected, yes … but not astronomical. The coach is tight, leakproof, rides like a dream, and still stunning after 21 years of service. If we decided to head to Alaska tomorrow I’d put on a new set of tires and make a trip to Inland power in Milwaukee for oil and filters changes, chassis service, top off the Freon in the OTR A/C, and put the Detroit Diesel and Allison on the computer to make sure everything was up to snuff (something I’m yet to do and should do).

So what’s the difference between our 21 year old coach and a $500,000 Prevost? A few years, two to four slides (we don’t need no stickin slides to stick and leak), no rivets (did you know rivet coaches rule?), maybe some fancier interior surfaces, the fancy Prevost Multiplex wiring, HD satellite dish, built-in flat screen TVs, maybe a Crestron system, an outside temp gauge and an altimeter.

In ten years what will our then 31 year old coach be like? If I reasonably maintain it and don’t wreck it … it’ll be like a 1989 coach is today. Which still appear to hold reasonable value and for which there is decent demand. But I’ll have a Series 60 engine, six speed Allison World transmission, its a 45′ foot and not 40′, and I’ll have a independent front suspension. It’ll have 275,000 miles and I’ll have put 200,000 of those on it.

(BTW … I firmly belive that 8V92 Prevost motorhomes are probably the best value in all of RVing today!)

[Ronald]

Someguy you wrote: “Regardless, I want to do a complete front to back refresh on the chassis and drivetrain, so that I never have problems when travelling. What items should be in my list and approximately how much would each cost for parts and labor ?”

Your approach is valid. As I stated above we bought your 1999 XLV in 2014 with 72,000 miles on it. Following the advice of Jon Wehrenberg and Jeff Rowe at East Tennesse Luxury coach we immediately zero’d out lots of stuff. I spent $30,000 before even driving it.

Jeff has “zero’d out” many coaches in the last 7 or 8 years he’s had his own shop. I’m sure he can give you a list. But from my experience if you’re looking at a coach with 700,000 miles on it … plan on at least $30,000 to as much as $50,000. But its possilbe you’ll find the coach has maintenance records and some things have been updated and changed out recently.

Someguy you also wrote: “Judging by the comments on a couple forumns it seems the H3-45s are built better than MCIs. Am I right?”

That’s a good question. Almost all the luxury motorcoach conversions have been done on Prevosts. There are very, very few MCI conversion done by the converter. How does the Prevost nationwide service network compare to the MCI service network? Which bus builder has more units in service? Prevost or MCI?

[Roy]

Someguy, I cannot disagree with your observation that not everybody wants to stick $500,000 into a motor home conversion.

But do your homework and be honest with yourself. You can buy a high mileage Prevost dirt cheap. It might be possible to even buy one that the owner maintained very well right up until the sale meaning you will not take a lot of money from your pocket immediately, other than what might initially be needed to continue the maintenance program.

You can do a minimal conversion picking up used components from ebay such as inverters and generators. You can buy Chinese split A/C systems. And you will likely have $50,000 or a little more tied up when you hit the road.

Or to use that as a starting point you can get a damn nice 8V92 equipped 40 foot professional conversion with decades of life remaining. If you can open your wallet for up to $100,000 you can get into some fantastic H3 coaches with a series 60 that have always been a lightly used motor home. Something you can jump into and use immediately, and then use your skills to maintain as the need arises.

If you do that it is unlikely you will ever have to buy or rebuild and engine, transmission, or replace a 20KW generator. You will have high quality professionally designed and built systems, and your skills can be used to change things as you see the need, refreshing it with perhaps new flooring, or upholstery or even replacing the corion top surfaces with fine Italian marble.

There are guys that won’t touch a Prevost and really do want to convert a skoolie, or get a vintage GM old Greyhound seated coach and make one of their own. And there are guys that never want to have to put a tool in their hands so they buy new or nearly new conversions. And they are all making the right decision.

Just look at coaches and see what you can get for your money.