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Generator Watchdog ?
I have a 1996 Liberty that has a 20K generator in it that I am having some starting problems with . Prevost dealer in Ft Worth Diagnosed it as a problem with the watchdog system. And suggested that I take it somewhere that specialized in Liberty’s . There are instructions on the panel that tell how to By-Pass the Watchdog system. And that is what I have been doing for a couple of days now.
I just wondered if anybody here had any trouble shooting and or repair experience with the watchdog ?
Thanks in Advance !
Rocky Lane
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43 Replies
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Rocky,
In case you are not aware there is a reset button on the bottom of the Watchdog. If you were not aware look for it and press it to reset the funtion of the Watchdog. It is tiny and not easy to see. I have had to reset mine on my previous bus a couple of times. No big deal.
But regardless it is proprietary and the starting point (if it is not the reset) is to call Troy at Liberty to see if there is something else you might be overlooking.
Keep in mind when you bypass the Watchdog you lose all safety shutdown features so it is important to have that working.
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Jon,
Yes , They showed Us the tiny reset button. But that would not do it. I am going to get My coach in somewhere ASAP. I understand the importance of this little unit now! And I think there are some inverter issues , Which might be the Dogs problems ? Makes Me cringe to think of burning up some wiring on this Jewell!!!
Thanks So Much Jon ! Do You have a # for Troy @ Liberty ?
Be Safe,
Rocky
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The Watchdog and the inverters are not related. Two separate systems that are not connected in any way. Why do you think you have inverter problems? I suspect you have a pair of Heart Interface 2500 inverters. They are viewed on the remote panels in the electric box and very easily checked.
I don’t have Troy’s number. He works out of Liberty in Stuart. Their number is on their advertisements on this site.
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Inverter or transfer switch problem maybe ? When I unplug from Shore power , The inverters do not kick in. I have to start the generator and turn on charger # 1 & # 2 before I get anything. Last night I was plugged into Shore and had a high reading on left side of 169 and 118 on right. I unhooked Shore , Inverters did not kick in, Nothing. Started generator and had same high reading on left side ? Is this too High ? Unsafe to use ?
I was in the process of changing out the rear TV and had a new protection power strip plugged into the outlet that is in the TV cavity. And it burnt it up. Thats when I disconnected Shore, Etc.
I also noticed that the generator battery is over Charging and was very hot and stinking.
Thanks in Advance !
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I am in South Central Ky. I am hoping that the dealer in Nashville is familar with the Liberty. If not , it is either Chicago or Fl. for the Liberty Dealers.
The Prevost dealer that checked it for Me in Ft Worth , Recommended that I take it somewhere that knew Liberty’s , And said there was a place in Dallas. But I did not have time to get there before they closed. I had to get back Home, And had High hopes for Nashville ? Has any Liberty Owners had Good/Bad experiences in Nashville ?
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Rocky,
The way your coach is set up your transfer switch yields to the highest power available. In other words if the generator is not running and shore power is not connected you will get 120 volts from your inverters, but only on the few circuits powered by the inverters, such as refrigerator, microwave, forward and rear outlets, air compressor, and tv. The output voltage on your panel should read around 120. That voltage is coming from the batteries and the inverters are merely changing battery DC voltage to 120 volts AC. If that was where you were getting 160 + volts the inverter(s) have a problem
When you are connected to shore power the inverter does not create 120 V AC power, but merely passes it through relays internal to the inverter and the inverter changes into a battery charger.
The same thing applies when the generator is running, and the transfer switch will supply generator power to the coach instead of shore power, even if you are connected to shore power because the output of the generator is about 180 amps instead of 100 on shore power.
So based on what you are saying, assuming no damage to your coach, your problem appears to be shore power related.
The Watch Dog is not related to the over voltage issue.
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Take it to Liberty and get it done right. You apparantly have limited knowledge of the systems, and if that is true, the best place to go is directly to Liberty. Since you don’t even know what is wrong, or what systems are really screwed up, taking it someplace else is going to be a money pit type of transaction.
Bite the bullet and go to the Liberty location that can work you in first.
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The High Voltage issue with My Coach turned out to be the Refridgerator. I heard it grunt and watched the voltage climb. Turn off the Fridge and watch it go down. A Entertainer Coach Manufacturer that I took the coach to in Nashville last week said they have had the same problem when one of the rooftop AC compressors lock up.
I have an Appointment with a Coach / Houseboat repair facility that comes highly recommended in the area. To Check/Repair the Fridge.
Thanks,
Rocky
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Rocky,
You very likely have an Amana refrigerator that sits on a 3″ high platform.
For anyone to work on it you need to pull it out and the easiest way is to build a platform the height of the existing platform, the width and depth of the refrigerator and which will slide easy on the floor. You then have to pull it into the kitchen area so you can access the rear. That likely involves removal of the table. It sounds like a lot, and it is, but with practice you can have the refrigerator in the kitchen accessible for work in about an hour. Ask me how I know.
I struggled with my Amana for far too long. I replaced the evaporator coil, the evaporator fan, the condenser fan and then gave up and replaced it with a new Bosch. Give serious consideration to if you want to keep messing with an old refrigerator. If the refrigerators are stripped they go in and out via the windshield easily. You will have to pull the passenger seat out and protect the dash and furniture on the curb side to do that but it is worth it. If you choose to go this route Russell Coach here in Knoxville did the grunt work and the mods to the existing opening for me and I strongly recommend you give consideration to that.
I assume the voltage does not increase, but the amperage. If the voltage goes up that makes no sense. If the amperage goes up it sounds like a locked compressor and the cost of that repair may make the decision for you.
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From what you are describing you may have a bad neutral connection either in your shore power or your coach inlet. This can distort the voltage on each split phase depending on the loads. Very unsafe, please have it checked. Could be a bad transfer switch relay with a burned up neutral contact.
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Rocky,
I am a lurking electrical engineer on this site. I just read thorugh this thread and I think the previous poster hit the nail on the head.
I agree with him that you are very likely experiencing a high resistance, or even an open neutral. The refrigerator is most likely just shifting the voltage and it is probably not part of the problem at all. Just image any device you have on the coach that is turned on and normally gets 115vac is subject to receiving up to 200vac or more under the right conditions. There are not many things that can take that without damage. Your 220vac devices will be undamaged.
I would take this super seriously and not sleep until I found the bad neutral connection. During that time I would not use the generator or shore power. You may have caught this before much damage has been done – I hope so. Good luck. Russ
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Gerald and Russ……..I respect both your opinions but help me understand how voltage increases with high resistance. I am completely clear on how amperage goes up and I suspect that is what Rocky is seeing, suspecting a compressor issue in the refrigerator.
Unless Rocky is inverting only the shore power to his coach is a direct pass through with each hot leg of the shore power feeding a 120Volt bus in the circuit breaker box. There is no cross over in his Liberty between each hot leg with the exception of the 2 240 volt circuits which are the range and outside grille. So how does 120 increase? The amps increase, heat build up, but I don’t get how you can turn 120 into a higher voltage just by opeing a circuit increasing resistance.
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I mentiomed that: because been there done that two tv’s microwave surround sound Air cond. caused by loose neutral. two hot lines 1 and 2 fed high voltage to system. neutraul ground bonding is a huge subject. Number one place to start is your shore cord. If it is good and I mean wiggle it make sure if it is on reel it is always making contact.. 2nd allot of campgrounds and home power are still not wired correctly. get a cheap checker and check them if you have questions. By the way reading was 208 volts across plug in. corrected ground went to 121 across outlet. Bob
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Jon,
Let me take a shot at this and see if I can make it at least less muddy.
By the time power is delivered to your coach either by the power company or your generator there are just four wires involved. The safety ground should never be a current carrying conductor except in a fault sitaution, so we can forget it for this disucssion. That leaves three and they are conventionally colored two black and one white ( or gray ). The white one is called neutral and the other two we will call the “hot” wires. Each of these wires, of course, should have a low resistance connection to their power supply. When they do, things are lovely and you have nominal voltage from each hot wire to neutral, which we’ll call 120vac for now. Neglecting the resistance of the wire and connections and the impedance of the source, any load you apply in the coach from hot to neutral will see 120vac no matter how large or small the load all the way to the point where the load exceedes the rating of the breaker ( or somewhat less ) and it trips.
If the connection to the center of the coils anywhere between the power company’s transformer or your generator is bad or open ( an open neutral or high resistance neutral ) things get much more complicated. Current flow always requires a path to and from the source. Now with an open neutral, it cannot return the way it normally would. You still have exactly 240vac nominal from hot wire to hot wire, but what do you have from a hot to this floating neutral every 120vac applicance or device in the coach is still connected to?
I’m going to explain by using an example that I think when you understand the example you will begin to get a feeling for what is going on. For this example I want you to imagine that there are only three 120vac devices in your coach – two 100watt light bulbs and a toaster. Now consider that in this example each of the lights is on a separate breaker and each breaker is connected to a different HOT wire. The toaster is plugged in, but not turned on as and the lights are off. That’s it, for this example all else is open and off in your coach.
First question – what happens if you simultaneously turn on both lights? What happens if you turn off one?
I’ll venture a guess that not many of you get the right answer – because it certainly is not intuitive.
Okay – when you turn them both on at the same time they light normally. When you turn one off – they both go off! Anybody get that right.
Now for extra credit, turn them back on and try to have a piece of toast. What happens?
You will probably hear a pop as one light blows up, the other goes out, and you have cold bread.
The 240volts gets divided across your loads depending upon the resistance of the loads. When both lights were on, and they were both 100watt bulbs, they had the same resistance and the 240V got divided across them equally and they both worked just fine. When you turned one of them off, you actually opened the circuit. See, with no neutral, the circuit is from hot wire, through appliance, through another appliance, and back to the other hot wire. If a switch is opened, and there are only two loads, it opens the circuit and both lights go out. Got it?
Now we added the toaster which has a much lower resistance than the bulbs. About 10 times lower so when it was added, the voltage no longer divides equally as the resistance is no longer equal. It would divide say 90% to the light bulb by itself, and 10% to the parallel toaster and light bulb. So that’s 216 volts to the light bulb by itself, and “pop” it’s toast – Ha Ha! The other bulb and toaster momentarily get the remaining 24volts before the bulb pops and the circuit is open again. In the case of this thread, a rather large load like a refrigerator would shift the voltage low on that phase of the system and high on the other phase which probably contained the plug strip that fried.
Everything electrical appliance that normally runs on 120vac is at risk with an open neutral. Stories abound on the rv forums about the damage an open neutral allows. That and lightning strikes are easily the two leading causes for device damage due to over-voltage. I will try to answer any questions and I hope this helped. Russ
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Best in this case.Have been in two camp resorts where both grounds were attached to same bar . My coach kicked out when I plugged in. One had no additional sites and I left. The other I actually fixed the problem. I know (bad Bob) I did show thier guy his mistake. Everything was there just didn’t realize differance in grounds. Home builders please pay attention to your ground seperation and neutral bond breaking at gen set/shore power. Bob
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