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Michelin Tire Problems
Let me start from the past then go to the present.
Have owned bus for 2 1/2 yrs, had hop/vibration from start. Couple of tire shops dismounted and rebalanced tires. Hop/vibration still existed. Finally went to JoSam in Orlando, FL. JoSam raised the the tires up while on the bus, spun the tires up on the bus and immediately noticed the out of round condition which was caused from improper seating of the bead to the rim at some point in the past. This was confirmed by measuring the guide ridge (the small band on the tire just outside of the rim) to the rim. Because the tires were 4 years old there was no remounting to correct this issue (they had already formed a memory). JoSam shaved the old tires to get them as round as possible and the bus never ran so smooth.
This was a lesson learn from what Jon has noted before in the form as to how important proper seating of the bead to the rim is when the tire is new.
Please take a moment and view the video link. Although you can watch the hole 14 plus minutes, Fast Forward to the 6 minute 10 second part and watch to the 7 minute 28 second part. This Michelin sponsored video clearly notes the Bead SEATING should be done horizontally or the rim supported if seated vertically to center the tire on the rim.
Fast forward to the last couple of months
Due to the old tires timing out on age date and not knowing their history I decided to have new steer and tags (365s) installed. Due to a business trip, I was in S FL. I made an appointment at a Michelin Authorized dealer. They installed the new 365s and seated the beads while the tires were resting against another tire at a 45 deg angle. I requested and later insisted they lay the tire flat while seating the bead. I was told they always do it that way and have never had any issues, and by the way customers shouldn’t be in the work area. Please wait up front.
After installation I did a test drive and as expected the bus had hop/vibration. Took the bus back 4 times and all the shop did was to rebalanced the tires. from my past experience with my old tires I know by looking at the guide ridge and rim the tires had been seated out of round and this hop/vibration was not going away. I expressed this to the tire shop and they would not listen. Of course they had never had this issue before, Bull $%@&.
Gave up on that shop. Came home to central FL and had JoSam check the tires. Surprise, all the new tires are egg shape. Drivers steer had a big hump in it too. Back on the phone with Michelin. Of course JoSam is not a Michelin authorized dealer so I got sent to another Michelin dealer in Lakeland FL to have the front steer checked and replaced if they deemed it necessary. Surprise again, it had a high spot and required replacing.
Here is the fun part. The Michelin authorized motorhome specialist in Lakeland, FL didn’t even have a spin balancing machine big enough for the 365s (they threw a bag of balancing beads in the tire and called it a day), and I had to fight the same battle with them not seating the bead in the horizontal position, but rolling the tire in the inflation cage with no support to the rim then fully inflating the tire. Of course they always have done it this way and I am the first customer to complain, and by the way sir, please wait in the customer lounge. Customers are not allowed in the work area.
I had the tire guy lay the tire flat on the ground after inflating it and sure enough the tire guide ridge was not equal to the rim. But of course there was noting they could do about it, they always do it that way and no one else has complained
So now I have four new Michelin 365 tires that are out of round because the Authorized Michelin tire stores improperly seated the beads. I have contacted the local and district Michelin representatives and shared my story. I ask to have JoSam rebalanced and trued (shave) the tires to correct the egg shape created by the improper bead seating OR have Michelin provide 4 new tire and have a district manager supervise the installation of the 4 new tires. Michelin’s district supervisor responded to my email that Michelin will not reimburse for anything done by JoSam because they are not with in the Michelin dealer ship and would void any tire warranty if I had the tires trued/shaved. They also said there dealers mount the tires in the proper manor and will not be providing any further assistance. I asked the Michelin rep to refer to the video and address how they (Michelin) could state the tires were properly mounted when both dealers refused to seat the beads in a horizontal position or in a support manor while vertical. Michelin ignored my request to address the video versus their mounting practices.
Who has Michelin contacts further up the food chain? Any additional advice would be appreciated. I am really struggling that Michelin is willing to leave me with 4 tires that their dealers improperly mounted and no further resolution.
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
19 Replies
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Reference …. showing tire is properly centered on rim.
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Michelin monitors this site and from time to time has responded to a post.
I will copy your post and email it to a contact I have at Michelin and also to a Michelin customer service.
We spent a considerable part of a morning at a Michelin shop dealing with runout on tires mounted on a truck. There are two potential issues, both with the same results that I will repeat here because they are important.
First, seat the bead on a tire with the tire and wheel in a horizontal position, such as with the wheel sitting on a 5 gallon pail. The ring around the tire in Al’s post needs to be uniformly spaced around the wheel. If not, deflate the tire, break the bead and do it again until the spacing is uniform.
But there is a second concern. Whether the tires are hub centered or stud centered it is possible for the wheel to be mounted in a position that is not concentric with the hub. If the wheel can be rotated after mounting, a dial indicator against a rotating tire will reveal no runout or a large runout. The fix is to position the spot on the wheel / tire with the greatest runout at the top of the wheel position. Loosen the lug nuts, allow the wheel to drop and retighten the lug nuts to spec. This will have the effect of centering the rotating wheel and tire assembly and reduce the runout.
When a tire with runout is driven it will feel like an out of balance tire. It is not, and if allowed to wear based on that runout the out of balance feel will get worse. Eventually no amount of balancing will correct the feeling, and only shaving the tire will correct the problem. If the runout is too much, nothing will correct the problem.
I am sure we all have witnessed technicians working on our coaches, doing stuff we know is wrong. It can range from over greasing fittings until the rubber boots fail, to mounting tires in wheels in the wrong way. I am sure if we have mentioned the errors the response is that is how we have always done it. Our option is to swallow hard and go away, or to make sure the shop and its technicians understand the work you are paying for has to be done correctly. Bus owners are often treated like morons because everyone knows if you have money to buy a bus, it is likely you aren’t smart enough to maintain it.
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Jon:
Thank you for passing on the post. I obviously need to move up the ladder from the rep I am currently dealing with.
Chuck
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I received and email from a Michelin manager this morning and she indicated she will look into this. She has access to our site.
I do not know if she will respond here or if she will contact you via email.
This Michelin publication will outline how to do any procedure on tires and if a tire being mounted or repaired is not done as described in the manual you should bookmark it and have it available to show the technician.
https://www.michelintruck.com/assets/pdf/Service.pdf
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Jon:
Thank you again for forwarding the info.
You just noted SHE in reference to the Michelin representative. I hope the SHE is not Tracy Johnson.
Tracy Johnson is who I have been communicating with and Tracy has taken a firm stance that the Michelin authorized dealers I have dealt with are reputable stores, know what they are doing, and after speaking with the stores I had visited she has informed me the stores installed/mounted my tires per Michelin specs and the stores have had little to no past customer complaint’s. Tracy has shown no interest in even trying to assist me as a customer and at least offer to thoroughly inspect the tires to prove or disprove my concerns. Her best offer is for me to return to the stores that didn’t do it right in the first place and let the store decide as to my fate.
Chuck
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https://www.michelintruck.com/assets/pdf/Service.pdf
Jon’s link from above message is hot
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Thanks Al, I should know better but forgot. I believe I am beginning to suffer from CRS.
The person I refer to is Pat and she has considerable knowledge and is very familiar with PC and has responded on this forum when the need arose.
I will repeat again that our tires are literally an engineering marvel. To get the best use and performance out of them requires the need to follow the best practices for their mounting, installation, and future maintenance. None of the requirements are difficult, none require any more time than doing things the wrong way, and when everything is done correctly we get the most for our buck.
The “bible” is the book linked to above. Michelin also has a larger, more detailed manual that runs to about 290 pages and it covers everything. Dealers who do things the right way, and follow the procedures are the folks we should use.
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Had all three axles aligned, our new Michelin 315/80R22.5-XZA-2 ENERGY tires mounted, balanced and Centramatic Wheel Balancers installed by Prevost Nashville (also, full delamination check – passed without incident!). Haven’t taken delivery of our coach yet (May) but, Olympia said it was done right and working perfectly! Off to a Great start!
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WOW is all I have to say
Just got off the phone with Michelin, after explaining that I went into their dealer with old tires and no vibration. Had new tires installed and now have BAD hop/vibration, and going into detail as to how their dealers want to just keep putting the tires on the balancing machine and adding or subtracting weights to try to fix my Hop/vibration instead of taking the time to use a runout gauge to determine what the problem really is. Michelin has told me again that their dealers have done what they normally do and that’s all they can do.
I again referred to a Michelin Company video on You-Tube that explains in detail as to how a runout gauge on a stand and marking the tire/rim can assist in determining vibration/hop issue. I asked to be sent to a Michelin authorized dealer that would take the time to put a runout gauge on the tire/rim and determine what is going on (my problem “the bus” or their problem “the tires”). Michelin said their shops have done everything within their scope of work to resolve the hop/vibration.
Michelin said I was welcome to take the bus back to JoSam and have them spend the time to find the issue, BUT Michelin may or may not reimburse for the work.
Wow, Wow, Wow. There is some customer service for you. They won’t even take the time to trouble shot their own tires at one of their own authorized dealers per Michelin’s own recommendation on the Michelin Company video.
Speech less
Chuck
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Hi everyone,
I thought I’d chime in here, I’m the Pat/Michelin lady that Jon referred to above.
Chuck, I have been in touch with our Florida Field Engineer and he is in an all day meeting today, but he lives in the Tampa area, so we can get some on-site technical resolution. Your tires haven’t been driven on for thousands of miles, so we should be able to understand the root cause analysis for your ride issues.
If you can send your contact information over to me, we can get the tires rolling again, smoothly.
My email is pat.meisenholder@michelin.com.
NOTE- corrected my email above. Pat
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Hello Pat
Have tried to send contact info twice. Keeps getting kicked back as undeliverable.
my email is Ck2hans@earthlink.netThanks in advance
Chuck
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Chuck, I corrected my email above- the words are right, but the link wasn’t picking up “pat”… so… @ pat.meisenholder@michelin.com
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Hi Pat:
Sent contact info to corrected address. Have not had it returned, so I believe it has worked.
Chuck
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Thank you Jon & Tom:
Thank you, Thank you, and by the way did I say Thank you for power of the Prevost Community and your contacts.
Your contact Pat from Michelin put me in touch with Chris Brooks from Michelin (Field Engineer & Customer Engineering Support). Chris came to my house, he was very knowledgeable, courteous, and professional. We jacked up both steers and both tags, checked all for radial and lateral runout, all were with in acceptable tolerances. Chris even took the extra time to check the brake disk and hub for runout on the tag axles. Again both tags were in acceptable range.
I accept but don’t understand (know where to turn next) that Chris spent the time to prove the new Michelin 365s were with inspects so what now? I have rebuilt the front end, installed new shocks, air bags, engine shims, ride height confirmed correct, had a complete body (front & Back) alignment, had the hub bearings checked, and a universal joint that seamed questionable replaced.
I went down this list with Chris and asked why after doing all the above items I still had a vibration with the old tires. When I had the old tires trued/shaved down the coach never ran so smooth. Now I have new tires (which Chris has proven to be inspects) and my vibrations are back. Chris noted the truing/shaving the tires only masked an underlying problem and didn’t fix it.
Makes perfect since, I can’t argue with that, but what do I do now. I have pretty much exhausted every possibility I or anyone else has come up with.
Chuck
Again thanks for putting the power of Prevost Community to the rescue. Without Michelin’s support and confirmation of the tires being with in their spec I would still be chasing a tire issue that appears not to be the culprit.
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Chuck, it sounds like the tires have been ruled out as a source of vibration which suggests to me it is an issue relating to other parts of the coach that are rotating. Has the driveshaft been removed and replaced? How about wheel bearings as a possible source, especially if there has been a hub seal replacement?
Are the engine mounts OK? I got nothing else.
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